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I'm not buying it. Just today stats came out that there were a record ~150 million employed. No way 1/4-1/3 of those are freelancing. edit: link https://www.do

I'm not buying it. Just today stats came out that there were a record ~150 million employed. No way 1/4-1/3 of those are freelancing. edit: link https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/osec/osec20181102 https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/osec/osec20181102

adpirz 8y ago
> full-time freelancers now make up 28% of freelancers (up 11 points since 2014) Only a little over a quarter of those are ONLY freelancing.
- mberning 8y ago
  Still seems high to me. Even in the software world I don't run into that many people that purely freelance. Many people moonlight as developers though, so I could see it being true if we looked at it as only part time supplemental income, but that is not how this is worded. Maybe it was just over represented in their sample. Looks like it was only 6k people.
  - drawkbox 8y ago
    In the software world it is probably higher than the 1 in 10 full-time freelancers [1][2] vs full/part combined of 35% of the total workforce. [1] https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-department-of-labor-numbers-are-misleading/ https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-depa... [2] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm
- drawkbox 8y ago
  According to this study [1][2], the fulltime gig/freelance/contractors are at 10-11% and full and part-time combined are at 35% of the total workforce. [1] https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-department-of-labor-numbers-are-misleading/ https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-depa... [2] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm
drawkbox 8y ago
Take a look at the people that file W2 (employee) vs 1099-MISC (contractor or freelancer), in 2014 W2s were 234m and 1099-MISC were 91m [1]. That means lots of contractors, lots of part-time and lots of employed but just over a third are contractors/freelancing whether part time or fulltime. [1] https://www.mercatus.org/publication/evaluating-growth-1099-workforce https://www.mercatus.org/publication/evaluating-growth-1099-...
- mberning 8y ago
  There are a lot of people that contract full time for a single client, so that number could still be misleaded. At least to me anyway. I would not consider those people to be freelancing.
  - drawkbox 8y ago
    Lots of freelancers do it a client at a time, better to have multiple for diversification, but contracting even for a single client is freelancing. The count or length of time doesn't factor into whether you are categorized as a freelancer or contractor, both cannot be dictated to in terms of location, hours or more so essentially it is the same. Lots of gaming, graphics or software freelancers also do it a project or client at a time and may create products for large markets like the appstores, graphic design storefronts or on OSS/patreon/content platforms so 'single client' is not always clear. But is a contractor that has a 6 month contract with one client a freelancer? Yes.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      I read that comment to be in reference to temp workers, seasonal hires, or folks placed by staffing agencies that retain the employee for some period before "perma-hire" versus someone who may be under a 1099 but selling some kind of professional service b2b style. Very well could be both-but I wonder which group takes majority capacity there.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Perhaps because the Mercatus institite is funded by the Koch brothers, the conclusions drawn play up the individual choice and down the forced by economics to do fill in work as a contractor or freelancer. The data shows a growth, but the conclusion doesn't seem to actually link to the anything directly shown by the data.
yani 8y ago
The number is too high to be true. Having used the platform for the last 2 years, the number of US based applicants to my jobs was less than 5. I have seen a lot of Eastern Europe and Asia folks to pretend that they are US bases.
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  It’s not a survey of Upwork users but of freelancers in general. Most freelancers in the US do not use Upwork.
walshemj 8y ago
Nah a lot of the "growth" in employment is these low pay disguised employment "gig" jobs. This is true in many countries not just the USA.
mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
Enployers are shifting burden by reclassifying w2s as 1099s. Many do so illegally. Others just hire everyone on 1099. Small businesses are most guilty. This is not a matter of more people CHOOSING to freelance / contract, rather being FORCED to. This is not a good sign people.
- kartan 8y ago
  False self-employment is a situation in which somebody registered as self-employed, a freelancer, or a temp is de facto an employee carrying out a professional activity under the authority and subordination of another company. Such false self-employment is often a way to circumvent social welfare and employment legislation, for example by avoiding employer's social security and income tax contributions.While a modern "gig economy" encourages more casual employment practices in the interests of labour flexibility, the extent to which this disguises precarious employment and denial of rights is of growing concern to authorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment

adpirz 8y ago

> full-time freelancers now make up 28% of freelancers (up 11 points since 2014) Only a little over a quarter of those are ONLY freelancing.

mberning 8y ago
Still seems high to me. Even in the software world I don't run into that many people that purely freelance. Many people moonlight as developers though, so I could see it being true if we looked at it as only part time supplemental income, but that is not how this is worded. Maybe it was just over represented in their sample. Looks like it was only 6k people.
- drawkbox 8y ago
  In the software world it is probably higher than the 1 in 10 full-time freelancers [1][2] vs full/part combined of 35% of the total workforce. [1] https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-department-of-labor-numbers-are-misleading/ https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-depa... [2] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm
drawkbox 8y ago
According to this study [1][2], the fulltime gig/freelance/contractors are at 10-11% and full and part-time combined are at 35% of the total workforce. [1] https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-department-of-labor-numbers-are-misleading/ https://qz.com/work/1324292/gig-economy-data-why-the-us-depa... [2] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/conemp.nr0.htm

drawkbox 8y ago

Take a look at the people that file W2 (employee) vs 1099-MISC (contractor or freelancer), in 2014 W2s were 234m and 1099-MISC were 91m [1]. That means lots of contractors, lots of part-time and lots of employed but just over a third are contractors/freelancing whether part time or fulltime. [1] https://www.mercatus.org/publication/evaluating-growth-1099-workforce https://www.mercatus.org/publication/evaluating-growth-1099-...

mberning 8y ago
There are a lot of people that contract full time for a single client, so that number could still be misleaded. At least to me anyway. I would not consider those people to be freelancing.
- drawkbox 8y ago
  Lots of freelancers do it a client at a time, better to have multiple for diversification, but contracting even for a single client is freelancing. The count or length of time doesn't factor into whether you are categorized as a freelancer or contractor, both cannot be dictated to in terms of location, hours or more so essentially it is the same. Lots of gaming, graphics or software freelancers also do it a project or client at a time and may create products for large markets like the appstores, graphic design storefronts or on OSS/patreon/content platforms so 'single client' is not always clear. But is a contractor that has a 6 month contract with one client a freelancer? Yes.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    I read that comment to be in reference to temp workers, seasonal hires, or folks placed by staffing agencies that retain the employee for some period before "perma-hire" versus someone who may be under a 1099 but selling some kind of professional service b2b style. Very well could be both-but I wonder which group takes majority capacity there.
dv_dt 8y ago
Perhaps because the Mercatus institite is funded by the Koch brothers, the conclusions drawn play up the individual choice and down the forced by economics to do fill in work as a contractor or freelancer. The data shows a growth, but the conclusion doesn't seem to actually link to the anything directly shown by the data.

yani 8y ago

The number is too high to be true. Having used the platform for the last 2 years, the number of US based applicants to my jobs was less than 5. I have seen a lot of Eastern Europe and Asia folks to pretend that they are US bases.

ryanwaggoner 8y ago
It’s not a survey of Upwork users but of freelancers in general. Most freelancers in the US do not use Upwork.

walshemj 8y ago

Nah a lot of the "growth" in employment is these low pay disguised employment "gig" jobs. This is true in many countries not just the USA.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago

Enployers are shifting burden by reclassifying w2s as 1099s. Many do so illegally. Others just hire everyone on 1099. Small businesses are most guilty. This is not a matter of more people CHOOSING to freelance / contract, rather being FORCED to. This is not a good sign people.

kartan 8y ago
False self-employment is a situation in which somebody registered as self-employed, a freelancer, or a temp is de facto an employee carrying out a professional activity under the authority and subordination of another company. Such false self-employment is often a way to circumvent social welfare and employment legislation, for example by avoiding employer's social security and income tax contributions.While a modern "gig economy" encourages more casual employment practices in the interests of labour flexibility, the extent to which this disguises precarious employment and denial of rights is of growing concern to authorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment