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Python 3 was released a decade ago. Python 2 is still supported until 2020. 2to3 exists. Python actually give a shit about their users. What a lot of people

by setquk 8y ago

Python 3 was released a decade ago. Python 2 is still supported until 2020. 2to3 exists. Python actually give a shit about their users. What a lot of people seem to forget about .Net is that for those of us who have been around since day one, we've been burned over and over again by large product and framework deprecations over the years. This is one too many.

kyberias 8y ago
> burned over and over again by large product and framework deprecations over the years. What large framework deprecations? I've been around and I don't feel burned at all.
- setquk 8y ago
  WCF, WWF, UWP, AppFabric, EF incompatibility etc etc. Basically the entire enterprise stack. And I’m not even talking about the whole original .net and com stuff.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    I feel similar. Espeically when you do desktop development it's hard to avoid being cynical about any Microsoft "innovation".
  - kyberias 8y ago
    I'm using WCF on .NET Framework. The whole enterprise stack is still there.
    - setquk 8y ago
      Yes but the clock is ticking on its demise.
- benmorris 8y ago
  Assuming Microsoft ends .net framework at 4.8 that effectively ends new features. Although older code will keep working for the most part isolated that isn't the real issue. For example I ran into an issue last year where we had to retarget all of our .net 3.5 projects to at least 4.5 to support tls 1.2. Had that upgrade path not been available we would basically have had no other option but move to a new platform. Even though bug fixes can happen older code will effectively rot with time as other things improve.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    Software rots just like physical products. Ongoing maintenance is required. Why would you expect old applications to be compatible forever?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Software rots just like physical products. No, it doesn't. It may become less relevant/useful as market conditions change (like physical products), but it (apart from physical media it is stored on) doesn't also itself degrade over time the way physical products all do at varying speeds.
      - manigandham 8y ago
        The binaries will run, but the world changes and if you want to keep up with those changes then the software needs maintenance, which is obviously the topic of discussion here.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > The binaries will run, but the world changes and if you want to keep up with those changes then the software needs maintenance, which is obviously the topic of discussion here. Physical products both rot (degrade with time) and become obsolete. Maintenance addresses the former problem, redesign and upgrades address the latter problem. Software becomes obsolete like physical products (and so needs redesign and upgrades), it does not rot like physical products (and so does not need maintenance.) Software “maintenance” is a misnomer, and the idea that software “rots like physical products” is wrong or, at best, a poorly chosen metaphor, since what it does do is at best loosely analogous to rotting, but exactly the same as becoming obsolete, which is something physical products also do, so rotting is not the closest physical-product analog to what drives the need for continuous attention to software.
        manigandham 8y ago
svick 8y ago
.Net Framework (and ASP.NET) will be supported forever. This is just about the specific combination of ASP.NET Core on .Net Framework, which will be supported until 2021, possibly longer.

by setquk 8y ago

kyberias 8y ago

> burned over and over again by large product and framework deprecations over the years. What large framework deprecations? I've been around and I don't feel burned at all.

setquk 8y ago
WCF, WWF, UWP, AppFabric, EF incompatibility etc etc. Basically the entire enterprise stack. And I’m not even talking about the whole original .net and com stuff.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I feel similar. Espeically when you do desktop development it's hard to avoid being cynical about any Microsoft "innovation".
- kyberias 8y ago
  I'm using WCF on .NET Framework. The whole enterprise stack is still there.
  - setquk 8y ago
    Yes but the clock is ticking on its demise.
benmorris 8y ago
Assuming Microsoft ends .net framework at 4.8 that effectively ends new features. Although older code will keep working for the most part isolated that isn't the real issue. For example I ran into an issue last year where we had to retarget all of our .net 3.5 projects to at least 4.5 to support tls 1.2. Had that upgrade path not been available we would basically have had no other option but move to a new platform. Even though bug fixes can happen older code will effectively rot with time as other things improve.
- manigandham 8y ago
  Software rots just like physical products. Ongoing maintenance is required. Why would you expect old applications to be compatible forever?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Software rots just like physical products. No, it doesn't. It may become less relevant/useful as market conditions change (like physical products), but it (apart from physical media it is stored on) doesn't also itself degrade over time the way physical products all do at varying speeds.
    - manigandham 8y ago
      The binaries will run, but the world changes and if you want to keep up with those changes then the software needs maintenance, which is obviously the topic of discussion here.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > The binaries will run, but the world changes and if you want to keep up with those changes then the software needs maintenance, which is obviously the topic of discussion here. Physical products both rot (degrade with time) and become obsolete. Maintenance addresses the former problem, redesign and upgrades address the latter problem. Software becomes obsolete like physical products (and so needs redesign and upgrades), it does not rot like physical products (and so does not need maintenance.) Software “maintenance” is a misnomer, and the idea that software “rots like physical products” is wrong or, at best, a poorly chosen metaphor, since what it does do is at best loosely analogous to rotting, but exactly the same as becoming obsolete, which is something physical products also do, so rotting is not the closest physical-product analog to what drives the need for continuous attention to software.
        manigandham 8y ago

svick 8y ago

.Net Framework (and ASP.NET) will be supported forever. This is just about the specific combination of ASP.NET Core on .Net Framework, which will be supported until 2021, possibly longer.