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The US doesn't tip off American companies with data gathered by its intelligence agencies. This was a decision made back during the Clinton years. You're welc

The US doesn't tip off American companies with data gathered by its intelligence agencies. This was a decision made back during the Clinton years. You're welcome to share your evidence to the contrary.

travmatt 8y ago
I’m pretty sure until recently they didn’t even share information that would help protect companies from state level actors.
Someone1234 8y ago
NSA spying on Petrobras[0]. NSA spying on EADS (Airbus)[1]. NSA spying on Eurocopter[2]. NSA spying on Siemens[3]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-petrobras/nsa-spying-on-petrobras-if-proven-is-industrial-espionage-rousseff-idUSBRE98817N20130909 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-petr... [1] https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/bnd-und-nsa-die-chronologie-des-spionageskandals/11722810.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/bnd-und-nsa-die-chronolo... [2] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/geheimdienst-affaere-nsa-jubelte-bnd-deutsche-spaehziele-unter-1.2715253 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/geheimdienst-affaere-nsa... [3] https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/edward-snowden-says-nsa-engages-in-industrial-espionage-1.2511635 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/edward-snowden-says-nsa-engage...
- strictnein 8y ago
  You're welcome to point out where I said "the US doesn't spy on foreign companies".
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    Snowden said they routinely conduct economic espionage[0] and the CIA tried it too[1]. If you had read the links above (particularly [3]) you'd know this already. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-despite-claiming-it-doesnt-engage-economic-espionage-engaged-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-d... [1] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140524/07014427355/former-cia-director-defense-secretary-says-cia-tried-failed-to-do-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140524/07014427355/forme...
  - meowface 8y ago
    The point is that these are clear examples of the NSA engaging in economic espionage, including tipping off US corporations with intelligence. Many countries do it. China is a worse and likely a much more frequent offender than the US, but the US still does it.
    - Kalium 8y ago
      It may be worth considering that the examples may not be as clear as their presenter might believe them to be. There may be a difference between spying on a given target and spying on a given target for a particular reason. In general, there are two claims being made here. Claim one is that the US has spied on a series of corporations. Claim two is that this has been done for the purposes of economic gain. The truth of claim one makes it possible for claim two to be true, but a cautious reader might note that what is possible and what is certainly true can at times be different. Not to wax cynical, but Ms. Rousseff's claim that there's no possible other reason to spy on Petrobras is not credible. Not because she was clearly lying (I cannot begin to evaluate that), but because there's no reasonable world in which she understood all possible aspects of the decision-making process that produced that spying. Given the type of corruption that Petrobras has been involved in, spies could have been pursuing a financial trail. This is not a certainty, of course, but it is sufficiently plausible that it's impossible to be certain that the NSA could only have been active there for purposes of industrial espionage.
      - meowface 8y ago
        Sure, that's certainly plausible. There are many reasons why an intelligence agency might want to spy on a large nation's state-owned energy conglomerate. The US government has indeed denied that the Petrobras spying was for economic gain [1]: >"The department does not engage in economic espionage in any domain, including cyber," the agency said in an emailed response to a Washington Post story on the subject last month. >In a statement issued on Sunday night after the latest revelations aired in Brazil, the US director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said: "It is not a secret that the intelligence community collects information about economic and financial matters, and terrorist financing. >"We collect this information for many important reasons: for one, it could provide the United States and our allies early warning of international financial crises which could negatively impact the global economy. It also could provide insight into other countries' economic policy or behavior which could affect global markets." >But he again denied this amounted to industrial espionage. "What we do not do, as we have said many times, is use our foreign intelligence capabilities to steal the trade secrets of foreign companies on behalf of – or give intelligence we collect to – US companies to enhance their international competitiveness or increase their bottom line." Maybe they're right. But how can we possibly know they're actually telling the truth? Especially when the intelligence agencies' job is essentially to lie? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra...

travmatt 8y ago

I’m pretty sure until recently they didn’t even share information that would help protect companies from state level actors.

Someone1234 8y ago

NSA spying on Petrobras[0]. NSA spying on EADS (Airbus)[1]. NSA spying on Eurocopter[2]. NSA spying on Siemens[3]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-petrobras/nsa-spying-on-petrobras-if-proven-is-industrial-espionage-rousseff-idUSBRE98817N20130909 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-petr... [1] https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/bnd-und-nsa-die-chronologie-des-spionageskandals/11722810.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/bnd-und-nsa-die-chronolo... [2] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/geheimdienst-affaere-nsa-jubelte-bnd-deutsche-spaehziele-unter-1.2715253 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/geheimdienst-affaere-nsa... [3] https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/edward-snowden-says-nsa-engages-in-industrial-espionage-1.2511635 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/edward-snowden-says-nsa-engage...

strictnein 8y ago
You're welcome to point out where I said "the US doesn't spy on foreign companies".
- Someone1234 8y ago
  Snowden said they routinely conduct economic espionage[0] and the CIA tried it too[1]. If you had read the links above (particularly [3]) you'd know this already. [0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-despite-claiming-it-doesnt-engage-economic-espionage-engaged-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-d... [1] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140524/07014427355/former-cia-director-defense-secretary-says-cia-tried-failed-to-do-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140524/07014427355/forme...
- meowface 8y ago
  The point is that these are clear examples of the NSA engaging in economic espionage, including tipping off US corporations with intelligence. Many countries do it. China is a worse and likely a much more frequent offender than the US, but the US still does it.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    It may be worth considering that the examples may not be as clear as their presenter might believe them to be. There may be a difference between spying on a given target and spying on a given target for a particular reason. In general, there are two claims being made here. Claim one is that the US has spied on a series of corporations. Claim two is that this has been done for the purposes of economic gain. The truth of claim one makes it possible for claim two to be true, but a cautious reader might note that what is possible and what is certainly true can at times be different. Not to wax cynical, but Ms. Rousseff's claim that there's no possible other reason to spy on Petrobras is not credible. Not because she was clearly lying (I cannot begin to evaluate that), but because there's no reasonable world in which she understood all possible aspects of the decision-making process that produced that spying. Given the type of corruption that Petrobras has been involved in, spies could have been pursuing a financial trail. This is not a certainty, of course, but it is sufficiently plausible that it's impossible to be certain that the NSA could only have been active there for purposes of industrial espionage.
    - meowface 8y ago
      Sure, that's certainly plausible. There are many reasons why an intelligence agency might want to spy on a large nation's state-owned energy conglomerate. The US government has indeed denied that the Petrobras spying was for economic gain [1]: >"The department does not engage in economic espionage in any domain, including cyber," the agency said in an emailed response to a Washington Post story on the subject last month. >In a statement issued on Sunday night after the latest revelations aired in Brazil, the US director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said: "It is not a secret that the intelligence community collects information about economic and financial matters, and terrorist financing. >"We collect this information for many important reasons: for one, it could provide the United States and our allies early warning of international financial crises which could negatively impact the global economy. It also could provide insight into other countries' economic policy or behavior which could affect global markets." >But he again denied this amounted to industrial espionage. "What we do not do, as we have said many times, is use our foreign intelligence capabilities to steal the trade secrets of foreign companies on behalf of – or give intelligence we collect to – US companies to enhance their international competitiveness or increase their bottom line." Maybe they're right. But how can we possibly know they're actually telling the truth? Especially when the intelligence agencies' job is essentially to lie? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra...