6 ms·

Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? I am using asp.net core 2.1 for .net framework because it comes handy to load third par

by pingec 8y ago

Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? I am using asp.net core 2.1 for .net framework because it comes handy to load third party .net framework dlls inprocess. I do not have any power to convince third parties to move to .net core.

SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago
Slowly, but yes. This is already happening for ASP.NET on .NET Core 2.1. And .NET Core 3.0 will support some desktop cases.
Lord_Zero 8y ago
Most major libraries have been ported. What are you using?
- pingec 8y ago
  Very niche, proprietary libraries
- polskibus 8y ago
  Adomd lib for communicating with SQL Server Analysis Services (from MS) has not been ported. WCF is also absent from .net core which makes migrating to .net core much harder for existing projects.
  - sebazzz 8y ago
    I'm not sure (haven't tried it), but I believe there are few tricks where the assembly can be loaded on .NET Core _but_ the called APIs in the assembly must of course be present.
  - rblatz 8y ago
    WCF support is in Core, we use it extensively to communicate to legacy systems. It is missing some features, like WCF Relays. As for hosting WCF services on Core, we've been trying to distance ourselves from WCF in favor of other technologies.
    - bouke 8y ago
      I think OP is referring to server-side WCF in Core, see also this discussion: https://github.com/dotnet/wcf/issues/1200 https://github.com/dotnet/wcf/issues/1200. As we're currently exposing WCF endpoints, this is also something that's holding us back.
- thrower123 8y ago
  There are a lot of first-party Microsoft dependencies that have not been updated and probably never will be. For instance, I do a lot of work with the Skype for Business SDKs, which are old and have D-level engineering assigned to them.
  - joeax 8y ago
    Skype for Business is going away too. As soon as we moved to Teams I stopped opening my SfB client completely.
    - thrower123 8y ago
      Unfortunately Teams has no usable extension API that would allow the funtionality of the old UCMA and UCWA apis.
      - WorldMaker 8y ago
        Some of it has already (Beta) moved into the Microsoft Graph super-API: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/graph/docs/api-reference/beta/resources/teams_api_overview https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/graph/docs/api-referen... Presumably, as Teams gets closer to eating S4B it will catch up on more of the rest.
- cm2187 8y ago
  ExcelDNA, Google OR-Tools, COM apis.
  - svick 8y ago
    I didn't hear about Google OR-Tools before now, but they seem to support .Net Core: https://developers.google.com/optimization/install/dotnet/source_linux https://developers.google.com/optimization/install/dotnet/so....
  - benaadams 8y ago
    COM support is coming to .NET Core 3.0
- bouke 8y ago
  * EO.pdf for converting HTML to PDF. It uses a headless Chrome instance to render the page and then converts it to PDF. We have a lot of complex page layouts, such that switching rendering engines wouldn't be a simple tasks either. * Server-side WCF endpoints. We're currently exposing WCF endpoints, which we must maintain for our current users.
  - DenisM 8y ago
    EVO PDF has a .NET Core version http://www.evopdf.com/netcore-html-to-pdf-converter.aspx http://www.evopdf.com/netcore-html-to-pdf-converter.aspx
minxomat 8y ago
.NET Framework isn't going anywhere. It is and will remain the basis for Xamarin. .NET Framework 4.8 will be the last release though. Innovation will happen in .NET Core and the packs available for it (e.g. the Windows Desktop Pack).
- cm2187 8y ago
  For current binaries. But what makes you think we won't start to see some syntax changes that can only run on .net core? That's the spirit of this evolution.
- akoeplinger 8y ago
  Xamarin isn't based on the .NET Framework. It is based on Mono which is in turn already consuming a lot of code from CoreFX (== .NET Core) and that share will only increase over time. Source: I'm working on the Mono BCL+Tools team at Xamarin/Microsoft.
scarface74 8y ago
Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? Yes. It's not a secret. Microsoft has said that .Net Framework is basically in maintenance mode and "will move slower". They are moving EF6, Winforms, and WPF to .Net Core (Windows only). https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on-net-core-3-0-and-net-framework-4-8/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on... I've been developing on top of Microsoft environments for over 20 years and .Net is by far my favorite language. But, the writing is on the wall. Anyone who wants a long term career in development needs to run away from Windows as fast as possible and slowly move away from focusing exclusively on .Net. Linux even dominates on Azure. https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ Microsoft knows that Windows can't compete in the cloud and selling Windows for desktops is not the future.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I will keep holding on to .NET and Java, regardless of ongoing issues, until an alternative is able to match at least half of the existing tooling, libraries and supported platforms. From my point of view the grass is still greener in this side.
  - ep103 8y ago
    Parent post was confusingly worded. he's saying windows as a programming platform is dead. You can keep .Net and Java, its just going to be .Net core and Java, and its going to run on linux machines. Its a matter of time until Visual Studio runs on linux, but that's the direction they're heading. Visual Studio Code already does
    - scarface74 8y ago
      he's saying windows as a programming platform is dead Not exactly. I'm saying that Windows as a deployment platform is dead. You can keep developing on Windows and deploy to Linux. I do it all of the time.
      - 8y ago
hurricaneSlider 8y ago
> Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? Unfortunately, yes. I would've liked to have seen support for netstandard rather than a particular runtime, I worried that it means people will get sloppy and just target whatever their web framework is targeting. You've luckily got three plus years of support, so hopefully in that time you'll be able to make a plan about 3rd party dependencies.

by pingec 8y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 8y ago

Slowly, but yes. This is already happening for ASP.NET on .NET Core 2.1. And .NET Core 3.0 will support some desktop cases.

Lord_Zero 8y ago

Most major libraries have been ported. What are you using?

pingec 8y ago
Very niche, proprietary libraries
polskibus 8y ago
Adomd lib for communicating with SQL Server Analysis Services (from MS) has not been ported. WCF is also absent from .net core which makes migrating to .net core much harder for existing projects.
- sebazzz 8y ago
  I'm not sure (haven't tried it), but I believe there are few tricks where the assembly can be loaded on .NET Core _but_ the called APIs in the assembly must of course be present.
- rblatz 8y ago
  WCF support is in Core, we use it extensively to communicate to legacy systems. It is missing some features, like WCF Relays. As for hosting WCF services on Core, we've been trying to distance ourselves from WCF in favor of other technologies.
  - bouke 8y ago
    I think OP is referring to server-side WCF in Core, see also this discussion: https://github.com/dotnet/wcf/issues/1200 https://github.com/dotnet/wcf/issues/1200. As we're currently exposing WCF endpoints, this is also something that's holding us back.
thrower123 8y ago
There are a lot of first-party Microsoft dependencies that have not been updated and probably never will be. For instance, I do a lot of work with the Skype for Business SDKs, which are old and have D-level engineering assigned to them.
- joeax 8y ago
  Skype for Business is going away too. As soon as we moved to Teams I stopped opening my SfB client completely.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    Unfortunately Teams has no usable extension API that would allow the funtionality of the old UCMA and UCWA apis.
    - WorldMaker 8y ago
      Some of it has already (Beta) moved into the Microsoft Graph super-API: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/graph/docs/api-reference/beta/resources/teams_api_overview https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/graph/docs/api-referen... Presumably, as Teams gets closer to eating S4B it will catch up on more of the rest.
cm2187 8y ago
ExcelDNA, Google OR-Tools, COM apis.
- svick 8y ago
  I didn't hear about Google OR-Tools before now, but they seem to support .Net Core: https://developers.google.com/optimization/install/dotnet/source_linux https://developers.google.com/optimization/install/dotnet/so....
- benaadams 8y ago
  COM support is coming to .NET Core 3.0
bouke 8y ago
* EO.pdf for converting HTML to PDF. It uses a headless Chrome instance to render the page and then converts it to PDF. We have a lot of complex page layouts, such that switching rendering engines wouldn't be a simple tasks either. * Server-side WCF endpoints. We're currently exposing WCF endpoints, which we must maintain for our current users.
- DenisM 8y ago
  EVO PDF has a .NET Core version http://www.evopdf.com/netcore-html-to-pdf-converter.aspx http://www.evopdf.com/netcore-html-to-pdf-converter.aspx

minxomat 8y ago

.NET Framework isn't going anywhere. It is and will remain the basis for Xamarin. .NET Framework 4.8 will be the last release though. Innovation will happen in .NET Core and the packs available for it (e.g. the Windows Desktop Pack).

cm2187 8y ago
For current binaries. But what makes you think we won't start to see some syntax changes that can only run on .net core? That's the spirit of this evolution.
akoeplinger 8y ago
Xamarin isn't based on the .NET Framework. It is based on Mono which is in turn already consuming a lot of code from CoreFX (== .NET Core) and that share will only increase over time. Source: I'm working on the Mono BCL+Tools team at Xamarin/Microsoft.

scarface74 8y ago

Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? Yes. It's not a secret. Microsoft has said that .Net Framework is basically in maintenance mode and "will move slower". They are moving EF6, Winforms, and WPF to .Net Core (Windows only). https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on-net-core-3-0-and-net-framework-4-8/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2018/10/04/update-on... I've been developing on top of Microsoft environments for over 20 years and .Net is by far my favorite language. But, the writing is on the wall. Anyone who wants a long term career in development needs to run away from Windows as fast as possible and slowly move away from focusing exclusively on .Net. Linux even dominates on Azure. https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ Microsoft knows that Windows can't compete in the cloud and selling Windows for desktops is not the future.

pjmlp 8y ago
I will keep holding on to .NET and Java, regardless of ongoing issues, until an alternative is able to match at least half of the existing tooling, libraries and supported platforms. From my point of view the grass is still greener in this side.
- ep103 8y ago
  Parent post was confusingly worded. he's saying windows as a programming platform is dead. You can keep .Net and Java, its just going to be .Net core and Java, and its going to run on linux machines. Its a matter of time until Visual Studio runs on linux, but that's the direction they're heading. Visual Studio Code already does
  - scarface74 8y ago
    he's saying windows as a programming platform is dead Not exactly. I'm saying that Windows as a deployment platform is dead. You can keep developing on Windows and deploy to Linux. I do it all of the time.
    - 8y ago

hurricaneSlider 8y ago

> Does this mean .NET framework is being dropped slowly for new projects? Unfortunately, yes. I would've liked to have seen support for netstandard rather than a particular runtime, I worried that it means people will get sloppy and just target whatever their web framework is targeting. You've luckily got three plus years of support, so hopefully in that time you'll be able to make a plan about 3rd party dependencies.