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Peter Thiel Pledges to Support Trump’s 2020 Campaign

52 points by koolba 8y ago

simonebrunozzi 8y ago
If history can teach us anything, Trump's chance of winning are not as low as people think. https://medium.com/simone-brunozzi/donald-trump-has-won-b0b6d60c32ab https://medium.com/simone-brunozzi/donald-trump-has-won-b0b6...
- fullshark 8y ago
  His favorability ratings are comparable to Obama's, Clinton's and Reagan's at this point in their presidency. He could easily get re-elected if the economy is still going strong. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/...
  - koolba 8y ago
    And it’s not just unemployment that’s down. Latest numbers are showing an uptick in actual wages. Combine that with people taking a look at their pay stubs and you’ve got a recipe for succcess in 2020.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      Can you provide evidence that real inflation adjusted wages are going up? It's my understanding that wages for the bottom 60% of the country have fallen or stagnated since the 70's and have only gone up in terms of non-inflation adjusted, or have actually gone down. The wealthy/elite classes are doing absolutely fantastic under Trump though, and are getting tax cuts and wage increases. Those don't represent America, though. Edit: Simple Google search shows my thoughts to be true [1]. Wages aren't rising quicker than inflation/cost of living, so saying wages are increasing or are "up" is a bit inaccurate. https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-wage-growth-is-actually-falling/#11c2a8587284 https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-...
      - koolba 8y ago
        Well there is this report from yesterday: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-by-3point1percent-highest-level-in-a-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-by-3... A 3.1% jump in wages should beat inflation at least for this year.
        prolikewh0a 8y ago
        Less than 0.5% increase then. Not too great! Does this also take into account wage increases of the top 10%? If so, that article would be wildly misleading.
      - DFHippie 8y ago
        They're up a fraction of a percent after adjusting for inflation. Here's where I get that figure: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/10/q3-ends-with-workers-getting-anemic-0-4-raise/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/10/q3-ends-with-...
    - creaghpatr 8y ago
      Plus boosting the standard deduction is giving middle class people a few extra thousand a year, many will simply endure the rhetoric for the payout.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Plus boosting the standard deduction is giving middle class people a few extra thousand a year No, it isn't, if you use the common sense of “middle class” to mean “middle income”, rather than the classical “petit bourgeoisie”. The change is less than $6000 in the standard deduction, so even if “a few” means only 2, you'd need over a 33% federal marginal tax rate to get a few thousand from it, which requires an income after the standard deduction of $200,000+.
    - zimablue 8y ago
      He did it by exploding the deficit (bunker busting tax cuts). Basically taking money from America's children to give to America's adults, who are too miseducated to realise.
      - refurb 8y ago
        The deficit is far lower than 2009-2012.[1] I love American politics where if your own party does something, you praise it, but if the other part does the same thing, you demonize it. [1]https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
        zimablue 8y ago
        You're comparing it to the middle of an enormous economic crash, and even then relying on an estimate of 4% which is high outside of an economic crisis/recession. Let's wait until the tax cuts have kicked in for a couple of years and then count it, but even by the estimates on the link you provided it's spending as if you're in an economic meltdown when you're not, and high by historical standards.
        refurb 8y ago
        If debt is bad, then it doesn’t really matter how it came about, were still “screwed”.
  - moccachino 8y ago
    None of those were as deeply involved in criminal activity and none of them had Robert Mueller on their tail.
  - hyperpape 8y ago
    I agree with the point that he has a very significant chance, wouldn't even disagree that he's the favorite (wouldn't agree either, just because I don't know all the indicators precisely enough). However, it's worth noting that his ratings have never been above 50%, whereas all three of those presidents had honeymoon periods above 50% right after being elected, and returned to above 50% approval before being re-elected. Saying his approval ratings are comparable is technically true, but a little misleading. It would be accurate to say "some presidents had similarly bad approval numbers, but recovered and were re-elected. If his approval numbers rise, like theirs did, that would suggest he'll win."
    - adamrezich 8y ago
      The biggest difference between 2020 and past elections is: who even stands a chance of beating Trump? His opposition party is in shambles and I can't think of a single solid candidate who would do well running against him. Sanders was the closest thing to a viable opponent for him and the Democrats nipped his then-rapidly-rising support in the bud by going with HRC instead. The Democrats have become "The F Trump Party," obstructionist in their own words... but support for Trump is basically at an all-time high, so this isn't a very effective strategy. Theoretically the right candidate could come along, powerful, charismatic, and well-versed in Trump's style of politics, and "put him in his place" ...but somehow I have a hard time seeing that happen, looking around at the potential Democrat 2020 candidates today. In fact I think there's a nontrivial chance of a third party viral literal meme candidate becoming more popular than the Democrat candidate in 2020. If anyone can name some potential candidates they see as viable I'd be interested in looking into them if I haven't already, but like I said, for the time being 2020 looks like a completely one-sided fight.
      - thrower123 8y ago
        Boaty McBoatface has a better chance than the current slate of potential democratic candidates.
  - screye 8y ago
    I can't believe how lucky Trump is. Inheriting the country when things are looking down right amazing economically. I do strongly believe that the US would have been doing great irrespective of the person in power. (I strongly dislike Trump as a person, and do have strong bias here. I also do kind-of believe that he is not very bright) But, should there be reason to believe that America's economic prosperity is due to the Trump admin, I would love to be enlightened on the matter.
    - hokumguru 8y ago
      I think that faith in the United State's economy has gone up as our administration, for better or for worse, has taken a hardline stance on "America First". Economies are all about skepticism and when the strongest economy in the world decides to make policy in strengthening its position - well, it certainly doesn't hurt. It's especially helpful that he had a decent starting point to begin with.
      - screye 8y ago
        I am genuinely interested in this. I can't help it myself. Even if I didn't know Donald Trump existed, he is the poster boy of the kind person I would utterly dislike. So, it is very difficult for me to evaluate his presidency through an objective lens. I am human after all. It doesn't help that polarization in media means, he is portrayed either as a do-no-wrong messiah or Satan himself. Do you know of any relatively objective report that talks about his policies and bills he has passed (that would have been opposed by a democratic president), and their effects ? I know a few good (what I believe to be) objective and research driven sources, but all of them are very critical of Trump. I would really appreciate being directed towards a piece that talks about his achievements as well (without putting him on a pedestal)
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > His favorability ratings are comparable to Obama's, Clinton's and Reagan's at this point in their presidency They are comparable to Reagan’s, if you look at bare approval, but, as a 2.5+ percentage point difference is pretty significant in approval, less so to Clinton or Obama. But bare approval is not really a good guide (net approval and bare disapproval are better.) While 538 posts Trump approval/disapproval/net, the default comparators is bare approval. But if you click over to compare disapproval or net approval, Trump is clearly in a significantly worse position than any of the past Presidents listed (including Reagan, despite bare approval being nearly identical.) Majority disapproval at a comparable point is unprecedented, as is greater than 10 points net disapproval.
- basic1 8y ago
  I assume his opponents will wait until 2024, he won't lose with a strong economy.
  - thrower123 8y ago
    There would need to be some compelling opposition first. Most of the mooted plausible candidates have gawdawful fatal flaws.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    The economy usually predicts Presidential approval, but Trump has managed to secure an unprecedented (for this point in a first term) -10.8 point net approval and majority (52.9%) disapproval; if that keeps up the biggest danger to a challenger (well, aside from voter suppression), even more than the structural advantages Republicans enjoy, will be an overly brutal crowded primary.
  - adamrezich 8y ago
    HRC implied in her recent Kara Swisher interview that she's going to wait for the Democrats to put 2020 candidates forth until Trump destroys all of them slash they destroy each other, and then when there's no one left she'll step up to the plate and become the Democrat nominee. Again. At this current point in time, I can't see any reason why this won't be the exact situation come 2020.
- tomatotomato37 8y ago
  He's an encumbant on what may still be an economic upturn. That's a pretty low bar to clear in order to get (re)elected.
notfromhere 8y ago
Peter Thiel is no fan of democracy, so I'm not surprised he's cozying up to the Trump administration
- selfselfself 8y ago
  Interesting. Any proof that he's not a fan of democracy?
  - burkaman 8y ago
    https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... > Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    > I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible From the article linked below. Honestly, reading that over, his political ideology is a hot mess of inconsistency. I'm not exactly sure what the hell Peter Thiel stands for, other than his own pocket book. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
    - rchaud 8y ago
      > his political ideology is a hot mess of inconsistency That's what happens when you treat "libertarianism" as the immutable word of God. Doesn't translate to the way human society works.
      - village-idiot 8y ago
        I think the funniest thing is this idea that you can escape to space or wherever and enjoy a free society, as if all the problems didn’t come from humans in the first place.
  - thrower123 8y ago
sebringj 8y ago
I really enjoy hearing the minds here on their opinion of why Peter Thiel is backing Trump. I don't quite get the motivation and if there are any insights to this, please fire away.
- verytrivial 8y ago
  Likely because he thinks he has a good chance of winning regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that being on his side will personally benefit him, so the usual motivation. He's very similar to Trump.
  - sebringj 8y ago
    Right but how does this benefit Peter directly? I was trying to think of many ways, both positive and negative. Tax benefits is a simplistic one...a possible negative way maybe crazy but if US innovation goes down because of Trump, possibly New Zealand will prosper as the alternative silicon valley but I don't have enough understanding to say such things.
- burkaman 8y ago
  Peter Thiel is opposed to democracy[1], and he thinks Trump is the most efficient way to destroy the American democratic system so he can build some kind of capitalist libertarian utopia in its place. [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... Most fun quotes from that: > Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. > The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.
  - sebringj 8y ago
    actually i thought this but was too cowardly to say that directly.
martythemaniak 8y ago
It makes sense. In 2016, the slogan was Make America Great Again. His 2020 slogan is Keep America Great. He has delivered on his promises, America is now great again, why would you want to go back?
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  What promises did he deliver on that have actually helped all/majority of USA?
  - aerovistae 8y ago
    I think he's being sarcastic.
    - prolikewh0a 8y ago
      I thought that too.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      I mean, it's 2018, who the hell knows? Poe's law needs a grim reaper like avatar, ruining your karma when you thought you were making a joke.
    - martythemaniak 8y ago
      Partly correct. If you try to measure Trump by some conventional, objective-reality based means, he is IMO, probably the worst president America's ever had. But people didn't vote for him based on such reasons and his supporters don't judge him on such metrics. Trump is a subjective feeling and he makes his base feel pretty great, so...
      - fastball 8y ago
        If you try to measure Trump by some conventional, objective-reality based means, he's probably the worst president America's ever had. Do you have an example of such a metric, or are you also talking out of your ass?
ppeetteerr 8y ago
Peter, what are you doing? I loved your book 0 to 1 and your rogue style but this makes it seem like you're (even more?) a jerk and out of touch with your peers.
- papito 8y ago
  When it comes to Trump support, look no further than the fear of Brown People. It's just that simple. There is nothing else he is consistent on. Generally, the more intellect, the less that sort of thing is likely, but racism traps some people that are not quite dumb. It's what's in their heart that matters.
Codestare 8y ago
It's no secret that Thiel has particular ideas about human behaviour and about how the world should progress. He is very clear in describing what he considers the issues, and it would appear that Trump's ideas in some way or other align with his own.
memonkey 8y ago
So a rich white man born into privilege and complicit with America's domestic racism, wealth inequalities, and staunch disregard for climate change, supports a candidate with the same ideals?
chickenfries 8y ago
> Questions about Trump’s name-calling and lack of civility were brushed aside. “I don’t think Trump’s nicknames are that nasty,” Thiel said. “They’re powerfully accurate.” I wish people would stop asking about this crap and ask Trump supporters how they feel about detaining asylum seekers, kidnapping, drugging and abusing their children, or how they feel about Trump kowtowing to Putin, or MBS, or about the corruption and nepotism. About the fact that we don't have a fucking ambassador to Turkey or Saudi Arabia because JARED is supposed to be handling it. Stop asking people about if they think the Tweets are too mean... Lots of downvoting going on in this thread. Care to comment?
snakeboy 8y ago
I find it a bit humorous that Peter Thiel is "bullish" on life-extension research while fervently backing a party that is doing everything in its power to make Earth uninhabitable in the near future.
- hokumguru 8y ago
  A common misconception. I think the average conservative definitely believes that we need to take measures to protect this planet. We just don't necessarily believe that government should be the method of action. Traditionally the market is vastly more efficient at solving these hard problems...
  - unchocked 8y ago
    I’d appreciate hearing a conservative history of markets correcting unpriced externalities.
    - mcphage 8y ago
      Here you go:
  - babypuncher 8y ago
    The market needs incentive to solve these long term problems, but our entire economy is built around incentivising short term growth over long-term stability.
  - TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
    I am curious, how could the market efficiently avoid the continued increase in atmospheric CO2 without government interventions? Isn't the continued use of incredibly cheap energy sources like oil too tempting?
  - Apocryphon 8y ago
    https://www.npr.org/2014/06/03/318414868/gop-demonizes-once-favored-cap-and-trade-policy https://www.npr.org/2014/06/03/318414868/gop-demonizes-once-...
userNamee 8y ago
He's very wealthy so he can insulate himself from Trump's attacks on the LGBT community which he is a part of. Too bad many people will suffer because of this.
zandl 8y ago
What I’ve found interesting is that there is a formal term “histrionic reoccurrence”, and amazingly an important writer on the subject is named G.W. Trompf. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
simonsarris 8y ago
I've talked to some people who I think are smart, in tech and finance, about why they like Trump (two of which also love Thiel, and I myself think Peter Thiel is underrated). If you sincerely want to understand where they are coming from, I have some reading for you. One of them gave me this article: https://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/ https://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-electi... Another penned this one recently: https://sovereignexceptions.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/team-trump-trumpism-and-trump/ https://sovereignexceptions.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/team-tr... None of my acquaintances in tech are public about supporting Trump. Finance is a bit different. And this is not at all true of my blue-collar friends (also note I live in New Hampshire, not SV). Unfortunately I find it is getting harder to talk politics, at all, with my very liberal friends. And it is very easy to discuss (and even disagree) with my conservative friends.

52 points by koolba 8y ago

If history can teach us anything, Trump's chance of winning are not as low as people think. https://medium.com/simone-brunozzi/donald-trump-has-won-b0b6d60c32ab https://medium.com/simone-brunozzi/donald-trump-has-won-b0b6...

fullshark 8y ago
His favorability ratings are comparable to Obama's, Clinton's and Reagan's at this point in their presidency. He could easily get re-elected if the economy is still going strong. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/...
- koolba 8y ago
  And it’s not just unemployment that’s down. Latest numbers are showing an uptick in actual wages. Combine that with people taking a look at their pay stubs and you’ve got a recipe for succcess in 2020.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    Can you provide evidence that real inflation adjusted wages are going up? It's my understanding that wages for the bottom 60% of the country have fallen or stagnated since the 70's and have only gone up in terms of non-inflation adjusted, or have actually gone down. The wealthy/elite classes are doing absolutely fantastic under Trump though, and are getting tax cuts and wage increases. Those don't represent America, though. Edit: Simple Google search shows my thoughts to be true [1]. Wages aren't rising quicker than inflation/cost of living, so saying wages are increasing or are "up" is a bit inaccurate. https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-wage-growth-is-actually-falling/#11c2a8587284 https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-...
    - koolba 8y ago
      Well there is this report from yesterday: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-by-3point1percent-highest-level-in-a-decade.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wages-and-salaries-jump-by-3... A 3.1% jump in wages should beat inflation at least for this year.
      - prolikewh0a 8y ago
        Less than 0.5% increase then. Not too great! Does this also take into account wage increases of the top 10%? If so, that article would be wildly misleading.
    - DFHippie 8y ago
      They're up a fraction of a percent after adjusting for inflation. Here's where I get that figure: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/10/q3-ends-with-workers-getting-anemic-0-4-raise/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/10/q3-ends-with-...
  - creaghpatr 8y ago
    Plus boosting the standard deduction is giving middle class people a few extra thousand a year, many will simply endure the rhetoric for the payout.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Plus boosting the standard deduction is giving middle class people a few extra thousand a year No, it isn't, if you use the common sense of “middle class” to mean “middle income”, rather than the classical “petit bourgeoisie”. The change is less than $6000 in the standard deduction, so even if “a few” means only 2, you'd need over a 33% federal marginal tax rate to get a few thousand from it, which requires an income after the standard deduction of $200,000+.
  - zimablue 8y ago
    He did it by exploding the deficit (bunker busting tax cuts). Basically taking money from America's children to give to America's adults, who are too miseducated to realise.
    - refurb 8y ago
      The deficit is far lower than 2009-2012.[1] I love American politics where if your own party does something, you praise it, but if the other part does the same thing, you demonize it. [1]https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306 https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
      - zimablue 8y ago
        You're comparing it to the middle of an enormous economic crash, and even then relying on an estimate of 4% which is high outside of an economic crisis/recession. Let's wait until the tax cuts have kicked in for a couple of years and then count it, but even by the estimates on the link you provided it's spending as if you're in an economic meltdown when you're not, and high by historical standards.
        refurb 8y ago
        If debt is bad, then it doesn’t really matter how it came about, were still “screwed”.
- moccachino 8y ago
  None of those were as deeply involved in criminal activity and none of them had Robert Mueller on their tail.
- hyperpape 8y ago
  I agree with the point that he has a very significant chance, wouldn't even disagree that he's the favorite (wouldn't agree either, just because I don't know all the indicators precisely enough). However, it's worth noting that his ratings have never been above 50%, whereas all three of those presidents had honeymoon periods above 50% right after being elected, and returned to above 50% approval before being re-elected. Saying his approval ratings are comparable is technically true, but a little misleading. It would be accurate to say "some presidents had similarly bad approval numbers, but recovered and were re-elected. If his approval numbers rise, like theirs did, that would suggest he'll win."
  - adamrezich 8y ago
    The biggest difference between 2020 and past elections is: who even stands a chance of beating Trump? His opposition party is in shambles and I can't think of a single solid candidate who would do well running against him. Sanders was the closest thing to a viable opponent for him and the Democrats nipped his then-rapidly-rising support in the bud by going with HRC instead. The Democrats have become "The F Trump Party," obstructionist in their own words... but support for Trump is basically at an all-time high, so this isn't a very effective strategy. Theoretically the right candidate could come along, powerful, charismatic, and well-versed in Trump's style of politics, and "put him in his place" ...but somehow I have a hard time seeing that happen, looking around at the potential Democrat 2020 candidates today. In fact I think there's a nontrivial chance of a third party viral literal meme candidate becoming more popular than the Democrat candidate in 2020. If anyone can name some potential candidates they see as viable I'd be interested in looking into them if I haven't already, but like I said, for the time being 2020 looks like a completely one-sided fight.
    - thrower123 8y ago
      Boaty McBoatface has a better chance than the current slate of potential democratic candidates.
- screye 8y ago
  I can't believe how lucky Trump is. Inheriting the country when things are looking down right amazing economically. I do strongly believe that the US would have been doing great irrespective of the person in power. (I strongly dislike Trump as a person, and do have strong bias here. I also do kind-of believe that he is not very bright) But, should there be reason to believe that America's economic prosperity is due to the Trump admin, I would love to be enlightened on the matter.
  - hokumguru 8y ago
    I think that faith in the United State's economy has gone up as our administration, for better or for worse, has taken a hardline stance on "America First". Economies are all about skepticism and when the strongest economy in the world decides to make policy in strengthening its position - well, it certainly doesn't hurt. It's especially helpful that he had a decent starting point to begin with.
    - screye 8y ago
      I am genuinely interested in this. I can't help it myself. Even if I didn't know Donald Trump existed, he is the poster boy of the kind person I would utterly dislike. So, it is very difficult for me to evaluate his presidency through an objective lens. I am human after all. It doesn't help that polarization in media means, he is portrayed either as a do-no-wrong messiah or Satan himself. Do you know of any relatively objective report that talks about his policies and bills he has passed (that would have been opposed by a democratic president), and their effects ? I know a few good (what I believe to be) objective and research driven sources, but all of them are very critical of Trump. I would really appreciate being directed towards a piece that talks about his achievements as well (without putting him on a pedestal)
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > His favorability ratings are comparable to Obama's, Clinton's and Reagan's at this point in their presidency They are comparable to Reagan’s, if you look at bare approval, but, as a 2.5+ percentage point difference is pretty significant in approval, less so to Clinton or Obama. But bare approval is not really a good guide (net approval and bare disapproval are better.) While 538 posts Trump approval/disapproval/net, the default comparators is bare approval. But if you click over to compare disapproval or net approval, Trump is clearly in a significantly worse position than any of the past Presidents listed (including Reagan, despite bare approval being nearly identical.) Majority disapproval at a comparable point is unprecedented, as is greater than 10 points net disapproval.
basic1 8y ago
I assume his opponents will wait until 2024, he won't lose with a strong economy.
- thrower123 8y ago
  There would need to be some compelling opposition first. Most of the mooted plausible candidates have gawdawful fatal flaws.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  The economy usually predicts Presidential approval, but Trump has managed to secure an unprecedented (for this point in a first term) -10.8 point net approval and majority (52.9%) disapproval; if that keeps up the biggest danger to a challenger (well, aside from voter suppression), even more than the structural advantages Republicans enjoy, will be an overly brutal crowded primary.
- adamrezich 8y ago
  HRC implied in her recent Kara Swisher interview that she's going to wait for the Democrats to put 2020 candidates forth until Trump destroys all of them slash they destroy each other, and then when there's no one left she'll step up to the plate and become the Democrat nominee. Again. At this current point in time, I can't see any reason why this won't be the exact situation come 2020.
tomatotomato37 8y ago
He's an encumbant on what may still be an economic upturn. That's a pretty low bar to clear in order to get (re)elected.

notfromhere 8y ago

Peter Thiel is no fan of democracy, so I'm not surprised he's cozying up to the Trump administration

selfselfself 8y ago
Interesting. Any proof that he's not a fan of democracy?
- burkaman 8y ago
  https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... > Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  > I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible From the article linked below. Honestly, reading that over, his political ideology is a hot mess of inconsistency. I'm not exactly sure what the hell Peter Thiel stands for, other than his own pocket book. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...
  - rchaud 8y ago
    > his political ideology is a hot mess of inconsistency That's what happens when you treat "libertarianism" as the immutable word of God. Doesn't translate to the way human society works.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      I think the funniest thing is this idea that you can escape to space or wherever and enjoy a free society, as if all the problems didn’t come from humans in the first place.
- thrower123 8y ago

sebringj 8y ago

I really enjoy hearing the minds here on their opinion of why Peter Thiel is backing Trump. I don't quite get the motivation and if there are any insights to this, please fire away.

verytrivial 8y ago
Likely because he thinks he has a good chance of winning regardless of whether it is right or wrong, and that being on his side will personally benefit him, so the usual motivation. He's very similar to Trump.
- sebringj 8y ago
  Right but how does this benefit Peter directly? I was trying to think of many ways, both positive and negative. Tax benefits is a simplistic one...a possible negative way maybe crazy but if US innovation goes down because of Trump, possibly New Zealand will prosper as the alternative silicon valley but I don't have enough understanding to say such things.
burkaman 8y ago
Peter Thiel is opposed to democracy[1], and he thinks Trump is the most efficient way to destroy the American democratic system so he can build some kind of capitalist libertarian utopia in its place. [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... Most fun quotes from that: > Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. > The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.
- sebringj 8y ago
  actually i thought this but was too cowardly to say that directly.

martythemaniak 8y ago

It makes sense. In 2016, the slogan was Make America Great Again. His 2020 slogan is Keep America Great. He has delivered on his promises, America is now great again, why would you want to go back?

prolikewh0a 8y ago
What promises did he deliver on that have actually helped all/majority of USA?
- aerovistae 8y ago
  I think he's being sarcastic.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    I thought that too.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    I mean, it's 2018, who the hell knows? Poe's law needs a grim reaper like avatar, ruining your karma when you thought you were making a joke.
  - martythemaniak 8y ago
    Partly correct. If you try to measure Trump by some conventional, objective-reality based means, he is IMO, probably the worst president America's ever had. But people didn't vote for him based on such reasons and his supporters don't judge him on such metrics. Trump is a subjective feeling and he makes his base feel pretty great, so...
    - fastball 8y ago
      If you try to measure Trump by some conventional, objective-reality based means, he's probably the worst president America's ever had. Do you have an example of such a metric, or are you also talking out of your ass?

ppeetteerr 8y ago

Peter, what are you doing? I loved your book 0 to 1 and your rogue style but this makes it seem like you're (even more?) a jerk and out of touch with your peers.

papito 8y ago
When it comes to Trump support, look no further than the fear of Brown People. It's just that simple. There is nothing else he is consistent on. Generally, the more intellect, the less that sort of thing is likely, but racism traps some people that are not quite dumb. It's what's in their heart that matters.

Codestare 8y ago

It's no secret that Thiel has particular ideas about human behaviour and about how the world should progress. He is very clear in describing what he considers the issues, and it would appear that Trump's ideas in some way or other align with his own.

memonkey 8y ago

So a rich white man born into privilege and complicit with America's domestic racism, wealth inequalities, and staunch disregard for climate change, supports a candidate with the same ideals?

chickenfries 8y ago

> Questions about Trump’s name-calling and lack of civility were brushed aside. “I don’t think Trump’s nicknames are that nasty,” Thiel said. “They’re powerfully accurate.” I wish people would stop asking about this crap and ask Trump supporters how they feel about detaining asylum seekers, kidnapping, drugging and abusing their children, or how they feel about Trump kowtowing to Putin, or MBS, or about the corruption and nepotism. About the fact that we don't have a fucking ambassador to Turkey or Saudi Arabia because JARED is supposed to be handling it. Stop asking people about if they think the Tweets are too mean... Lots of downvoting going on in this thread. Care to comment?

snakeboy 8y ago

I find it a bit humorous that Peter Thiel is "bullish" on life-extension research while fervently backing a party that is doing everything in its power to make Earth uninhabitable in the near future.

hokumguru 8y ago
A common misconception. I think the average conservative definitely believes that we need to take measures to protect this planet. We just don't necessarily believe that government should be the method of action. Traditionally the market is vastly more efficient at solving these hard problems...
- unchocked 8y ago
  I’d appreciate hearing a conservative history of markets correcting unpriced externalities.
  - mcphage 8y ago
    Here you go:
- babypuncher 8y ago
  The market needs incentive to solve these long term problems, but our entire economy is built around incentivising short term growth over long-term stability.
- TheAdamAndChe 8y ago
  I am curious, how could the market efficiently avoid the continued increase in atmospheric CO2 without government interventions? Isn't the continued use of incredibly cheap energy sources like oil too tempting?
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  https://www.npr.org/2014/06/03/318414868/gop-demonizes-once-favored-cap-and-trade-policy https://www.npr.org/2014/06/03/318414868/gop-demonizes-once-...

userNamee 8y ago

He's very wealthy so he can insulate himself from Trump's attacks on the LGBT community which he is a part of. Too bad many people will suffer because of this.

zandl 8y ago

What I’ve found interesting is that there is a formal term “histrionic reoccurrence”, and amazingly an important writer on the subject is named G.W. Trompf. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

simonsarris 8y ago

I've talked to some people who I think are smart, in tech and finance, about why they like Trump (two of which also love Thiel, and I myself think Peter Thiel is underrated). If you sincerely want to understand where they are coming from, I have some reading for you. One of them gave me this article: https://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/ https://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-electi... Another penned this one recently: https://sovereignexceptions.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/team-trump-trumpism-and-trump/ https://sovereignexceptions.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/team-tr... None of my acquaintances in tech are public about supporting Trump. Finance is a bit different. And this is not at all true of my blue-collar friends (also note I live in New Hampshire, not SV). Unfortunately I find it is getting harder to talk politics, at all, with my very liberal friends. And it is very easy to discuss (and even disagree) with my conservative friends.