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Maybe the point was lost in discussion but the original post was not about absolute, hard numbers at all - it was about people being accepting of violence. Abou

by aluren 8y ago

Maybe the point was lost in discussion but the original post was not about absolute, hard numbers at all - it was about people being accepting of violence. About violence being so ingrained that everyday folks such as what you may bump into in the streets may casually resort to it to solve problems. Germany's homicide rate (per 100,000 people) is approximately 1. Turkey's is 4. If you lived in a city with population 100,000, would the extra three homicides be so impactful that the remaining 99,996 people would shift their whole attitudes so that they'd be careful not to bump people in the street? What I'm arguing is: no, they wouldn't. I'm not arguing anything else, so please don't shift this away from the original point.

travmatt 8y ago
I think you are reversing the points, and putting needless emphasis on irrelevant factors. I think in marginally more violent cultures, violent acts of all kinds are marginally more common - murder is just the most extreme outlier. I think these marginal acts of violence set a window on the possibilities in any confrontation and people in society respect that. In NYC subways people usually mind their business, even when they see someone acting inappropriately- by masturbating in public, for example. I think this norm of minding their business is set by the window of possible outcomes - most people are aware of stories about people being assaulted or worse by others on a subway that they confront. In the extreme, people in prison place an enormous emphasis on respect, and gangs routinely and violently check members who disrespect others, whether against another gang or against other members. The more plausible that these outcomes are absolutely influences people’s actions. I’m familiar with plenty of areas where violent crime is commonplace, and I can absolutely tell you that it’s entirely possible to be assaulted (or killed, in the extreme) over disrespecting someone. If you’re really interested in this I’d suggest reading about what an honor culture is.

by aluren 8y ago

travmatt 8y ago

I think you are reversing the points, and putting needless emphasis on irrelevant factors. I think in marginally more violent cultures, violent acts of all kinds are marginally more common - murder is just the most extreme outlier. I think these marginal acts of violence set a window on the possibilities in any confrontation and people in society respect that. In NYC subways people usually mind their business, even when they see someone acting inappropriately- by masturbating in public, for example. I think this norm of minding their business is set by the window of possible outcomes - most people are aware of stories about people being assaulted or worse by others on a subway that they confront. In the extreme, people in prison place an enormous emphasis on respect, and gangs routinely and violently check members who disrespect others, whether against another gang or against other members. The more plausible that these outcomes are absolutely influences people’s actions. I’m familiar with plenty of areas where violent crime is commonplace, and I can absolutely tell you that it’s entirely possible to be assaulted (or killed, in the extreme) over disrespecting someone. If you’re really interested in this I’d suggest reading about what an honor culture is.