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> What does it have to do with living in Germany? Americans are often "horrified" at free speech in Germany because glorifying Nazis and terrorists is forbidde

> What does it have to do with living in Germany? Americans are often "horrified" at free speech in Germany because glorifying Nazis and terrorists is forbidden there (as in France and a handful other European countries). My take is that this platform at least probably allows posting pictures with nipples, unlike most US-based services.

vanderZwan 8y ago
EDIT: As pointed out below, I probably misread the intent of the comment I was replying to as its exact opposite (because I thought the user was the same as GP). If so my apologies. So you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis? Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- FabHK 8y ago
  > So you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis? I don't think he said that, just the opposite. I don't think he was being sarcastic. Hard to say, though, with this internet text thingy.
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    Hmm, upon rereading I think you're right. You see, I had not noticed it was a different user from GP, which biased my interpretation of intent. > Hard to say, though, with this internet text thingy. Tell me about it. Poe's Law[0] is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to communication difficulties on the web, and with trolls (paid trolls even) and algorithms that favor imflammatory content for stronger virality and increased watch time it's getting worse. Then again, that was exactly one of the main things that Adam Curtis was warning about in HyperNormalisation, and Clay Shirky in his work in general[1][2]. We're still coming to grips with this new medium of communication and haven't quite figured out adequate protective systems against abuse and exploitation yet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation [2] https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_one_day_transform_government/transcript https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_...
- seszett 8y ago
  > you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis No, I said the contrary. I am rather content with the state of free speech in France (and by extension, Germany, which is almost the same on this respect) because it fits very well my own view of how a tolerant society, respectful of its citizens, should behave.
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    So we were in agreement then, and I indeed misread your intent. Apologies.
omnimus 8y ago
Wow this thread escalated quickly. Well US is in many ways slowly starting to look like Nazy germany in its beginings. I hope this turns around because i really dont want nuke war. But it seems germany atleast tries to do something and learn from the past. While US in its hard defense of indivilualism (its just illusion btw) is really loosing it. I mean some people in us gov now are literaly evil and want to harm others. Thats never a good sign.
- jdpedrie 8y ago
  > denounces escalation > escalates further.
  - isoskeles 8y ago
    I think he was admiring how quickly it escalated and wanted to help out.
    - krapp 8y ago
      "Is the thread on fire?" "... it could be more on fire."
- ConceptJunkie 8y ago
  > I mean some people in us gov now are literaly evil and want to harm others. Thats never a good sign. Now? Wow. That is incredibly naive.
- theonemind 8y ago
  How do you see individualism as a problem? Our courts have generally upheld free speech rights pretty rigorously, and we a have a pretty strong capitalist ethos, i.e., a right to property. The worst symptoms of individualism, in my opinion, come mostly from a general American distaste for public programs, like, say, single-payer (government) health care. Generally, I feel like America has the most problems with a representative democracy. Our winner-take-all system naturally leads to two parties, and public opinion doesn't actually influence policy. Money influences policy. I see that as the big problem, not individualism.

vanderZwan 8y ago

EDIT: As pointed out below, I probably misread the intent of the comment I was replying to as its exact opposite (because I thought the user was the same as GP). If so my apologies. So you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis? Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

FabHK 8y ago
> So you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis? I don't think he said that, just the opposite. I don't think he was being sarcastic. Hard to say, though, with this internet text thingy.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  Hmm, upon rereading I think you're right. You see, I had not noticed it was a different user from GP, which biased my interpretation of intent. > Hard to say, though, with this internet text thingy. Tell me about it. Poe's Law[0] is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to communication difficulties on the web, and with trolls (paid trolls even) and algorithms that favor imflammatory content for stronger virality and increased watch time it's getting worse. Then again, that was exactly one of the main things that Adam Curtis was warning about in HyperNormalisation, and Clay Shirky in his work in general[1][2]. We're still coming to grips with this new medium of communication and haven't quite figured out adequate protective systems against abuse and exploitation yet. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation [2] https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_one_day_transform_government/transcript https://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_...
seszett 8y ago
> you're saying a country that censors Nazis but not nudity has crazier stances on free speech than one that censors nudity but not Nazis No, I said the contrary. I am rather content with the state of free speech in France (and by extension, Germany, which is almost the same on this respect) because it fits very well my own view of how a tolerant society, respectful of its citizens, should behave.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  So we were in agreement then, and I indeed misread your intent. Apologies.

omnimus 8y ago

Wow this thread escalated quickly. Well US is in many ways slowly starting to look like Nazy germany in its beginings. I hope this turns around because i really dont want nuke war. But it seems germany atleast tries to do something and learn from the past. While US in its hard defense of indivilualism (its just illusion btw) is really loosing it. I mean some people in us gov now are literaly evil and want to harm others. Thats never a good sign.

jdpedrie 8y ago
> denounces escalation > escalates further.
- isoskeles 8y ago
  I think he was admiring how quickly it escalated and wanted to help out.
  - krapp 8y ago
    "Is the thread on fire?" "... it could be more on fire."
ConceptJunkie 8y ago
> I mean some people in us gov now are literaly evil and want to harm others. Thats never a good sign. Now? Wow. That is incredibly naive.
theonemind 8y ago
How do you see individualism as a problem? Our courts have generally upheld free speech rights pretty rigorously, and we a have a pretty strong capitalist ethos, i.e., a right to property. The worst symptoms of individualism, in my opinion, come mostly from a general American distaste for public programs, like, say, single-payer (government) health care. Generally, I feel like America has the most problems with a representative democracy. Our winner-take-all system naturally leads to two parties, and public opinion doesn't actually influence policy. Money influences policy. I see that as the big problem, not individualism.