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These discussions reminds me how Nazis had their own physics…

by yuchi 8y ago

klausjensen 8y ago
I had never heard about this befoere. Now I have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik
ElBarto 8y ago
Absolutely nothing to do with it...
- jerf 8y ago
  Are you sure? We're already getting stories over here in the West where people are struggling with the results AI gives them when applied to people because the results are basically Wrongthink, and are trying to figure out how to get the AIs to conform better to their ideology and preconceived notions of what the AIs should be outputting. It's not a terribly far trip from there to Deutsche Physik or Lysenkoism, except wrapped in a much denser fog of complex math and enough complicated details to construct any narrative you want. Using AI to ideologically crack down on a population will eventually reach even the AI researchers and destroy their ability to maintain and develop the AI. (I don't think it's an inevitable trip from struggling with AI outputs and preconceived ideological notions to Lysenkoism. But I think it is an extremely tempting path for the society as a whole. There are a lot of forces that push in that direction, as the nature of the AI and what they do and control moves from a scientific and mathematical matter to a political one.)
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    This has nothing to do with Deutsche Physik but it fits the narrative of some people to associate China with Nazi Germany or any other dystopian regime.
    - jerf 8y ago
      The connection between China and "dystopian regimes" seems pretty clear to me. The biggest difference is that the Nazis and the Soviets could only dream of the tools the Chinese already have and will have, though the Soviets definitely proved that even without tech you could get yourself a pretty solidly oppressive police state going. Only time can tell if the result will be a state that explodes even more quickly due to the suppressed stresses coming out all at once at some point, or a stable totalitarian state will emerge.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - hatergonnahate 8y ago
        China will explode, there will be a big riot and it'll split into multiple "democratic"(and in fact, oligarchy）states which are not united at all, after millions died. At that time, US media just won't care about Chinese people at all and celebrate "democracy wins again!". Rest assured, China's history told us even that were to happen, within 50 years some dictator-like leader(Hint: last guy is Mao) will rise abruptly leading her 500+ million rural population in poverty and unit the land again.
    - Lio 8y ago
      China lacks democracy, routinely "disapears" its own promenant people, censors the internet and has the death penatly for the purpose of organ harvesting for the rich[1]. In what way is China not already run by a dystopian regime? [1] https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the-reality-of-human-organ-harvesting-in-china/news-story/14d3aa5751c39d6639a1cc5b39f223b7 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the...
      - qubax 8y ago
        If you propagandize one side like that, of course it looks dystopian. You could do the same exact thing for pretty much any state, country or bloc. > In what way is China not already run by a dystopian regime? How about the fact that they lifted 800 million people? Or the fact that they increased literacy rates from 20% before they came in power to nearly 100% today? Using your logic, everything is always dystopian because you only choose to see the negative. Every country has positives and negatives. Every single one.

These discussions reminds me how Nazis had their own physics…

by yuchi 8y ago

These discussions reminds me how Nazis had their own physics…

I had never heard about this befoere. Now I have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik

ElBarto 8y ago

Absolutely nothing to do with it...

jerf 8y ago
Are you sure? We're already getting stories over here in the West where people are struggling with the results AI gives them when applied to people because the results are basically Wrongthink, and are trying to figure out how to get the AIs to conform better to their ideology and preconceived notions of what the AIs should be outputting. It's not a terribly far trip from there to Deutsche Physik or Lysenkoism, except wrapped in a much denser fog of complex math and enough complicated details to construct any narrative you want. Using AI to ideologically crack down on a population will eventually reach even the AI researchers and destroy their ability to maintain and develop the AI. (I don't think it's an inevitable trip from struggling with AI outputs and preconceived ideological notions to Lysenkoism. But I think it is an extremely tempting path for the society as a whole. There are a lot of forces that push in that direction, as the nature of the AI and what they do and control moves from a scientific and mathematical matter to a political one.)
- ElBarto 8y ago
  This has nothing to do with Deutsche Physik but it fits the narrative of some people to associate China with Nazi Germany or any other dystopian regime.
  - jerf 8y ago
    The connection between China and "dystopian regimes" seems pretty clear to me. The biggest difference is that the Nazis and the Soviets could only dream of the tools the Chinese already have and will have, though the Soviets definitely proved that even without tech you could get yourself a pretty solidly oppressive police state going. Only time can tell if the result will be a state that explodes even more quickly due to the suppressed stresses coming out all at once at some point, or a stable totalitarian state will emerge.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - hatergonnahate 8y ago
      China will explode, there will be a big riot and it'll split into multiple "democratic"(and in fact, oligarchy）states which are not united at all, after millions died. At that time, US media just won't care about Chinese people at all and celebrate "democracy wins again!". Rest assured, China's history told us even that were to happen, within 50 years some dictator-like leader(Hint: last guy is Mao) will rise abruptly leading her 500+ million rural population in poverty and unit the land again.
  - Lio 8y ago
    China lacks democracy, routinely "disapears" its own promenant people, censors the internet and has the death penatly for the purpose of organ harvesting for the rich[1]. In what way is China not already run by a dystopian regime? [1] https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the-reality-of-human-organ-harvesting-in-china/news-story/14d3aa5751c39d6639a1cc5b39f223b7 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the...
    - qubax 8y ago
      If you propagandize one side like that, of course it looks dystopian. You could do the same exact thing for pretty much any state, country or bloc. > In what way is China not already run by a dystopian regime? How about the fact that they lifted 800 million people? Or the fact that they increased literacy rates from 20% before they came in power to nearly 100% today? Using your logic, everything is always dystopian because you only choose to see the negative. Every country has positives and negatives. Every single one.