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Is it possible to reach superpower status without doing those things? Inevitably, to reach superpower status requires bending others to your will. And there wi

Is it possible to reach superpower status without doing those things? Inevitably, to reach superpower status requires bending others to your will. And there will always be those that oppose you.

phyller 8y ago
I'm kind of thinking both the US and now China got there because of economics. At the end of WW2 US GDP was something like 50% of the entire world GDP. Most nations would be happy to do whatever they even thought the US wanted to have a good trade relationship and/or the aid that the US was passing around. And of course now China is the world's factory and more. Personally, I think once the US is gone and whatever happens afterwards happens, if history somehow remains accurate, I think people will see the last 75 years as a world-wide Pax America with the most benevolent world leadership that has ever existed. I'm sure I'll get downvoted to oblivion for this statement, but, big picture, the US has done more to provide peace and prosperity (and even freedom and justice) for a greater percentage of humanity than any other nation ever. If you look over human history, the natural human state is generally oppression, warfare, starvation, and disease. We just might be reverting back to the mean.
- aplummer 8y ago
  ...except for helping create the conditions to WW2, Vietnam, involvement in Afghanistan 1 and 2, Iraq war prison industrial complex (highest prisoner per capita in the world) war on drugs, supplying weapons to places like Saudi Arabia. I agree that the USA has impacted many many lives very positively. I don’t think this extends to an overall net “peace and prosperity” claim. I didn’t downvote FWIW
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - slededit 8y ago
    None of those compare to Napoleon’s rampages or the subjugating of half the world by the British Empire. In the classical world raizing entire cities was not uncommon.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      The population growth makes any comparison difficult. For example, the Napoleonic wars killed about the same amount of people as the Vietnam War. As for razing entire cities, the Korean War saw the US essentially raze a country. To quote General LeMay >We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too.
    - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
      If you look at pictures of current wars, we still raise entire cities. Put 'Raqqa' in google image search for instance.
  - joyeuse6701 8y ago
    Are you holding the United States responsible for WW2? Your other points I'd say are minor compared to the stability and transfer of wealth that has risen post WW2 under the U.S. world leadership.
    - aplummer 8y ago
      Minor? Read the numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War I don’t actually understand how you can even compare “transfer of wealth” and mass civilian casualties, let alone decide that the former is worth more. The WW2 reference is a bit of a captain hindsight addition and easily the most controversial. I only said contributed, I would leave that out to make my point clearer next time.
- hopefulengineer 8y ago
  reposting what I've said about this before: the US was the only country on earth that had nukes for 5 years and was unscathed from WWII. We could have demilitarized and enslaved the entire planet under threat of nuclear death, but instead we gave away billions to help Japan and Europe rebuild. There's never been a more selfless act in human history as far as a country not seizing an opportunity to gain power is concerned. There's probably never been a larger power disparity between a single country and the rest of the world than post WWII USA, and they did exactly nothing to take advantage of that disparity. US is far from perfect, mainly due to unconstitutional actions by our intel community and military, but as far as superpowers go there's really no comparison.
  - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
    > they did exactly nothing to take advantage of that disparity Oh come on, you cannot seriously believe that. Anyhow, I recommend you watch 'The Untold History of the United States' by Oliver Stone [0]. He has done a great job of telling people the stories that are not told in your history classes.
    - Audible_logic 8y ago
      Upvoted. I would strongly second this. Great documentary and offers a perspective of events that counters the common "Merciful America" ideology.
    - cbnotfromthere 8y ago
      Because of course a propaganda book from foaming at the mouth, dictator-worshiping, and Anti-American hypocrite Oliver Stone would provide truth. /facepalm.
      - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
        They guy made a documentary, and journalistically speaking, his work checks out. There are no factual errors in his documentary you can point to, so go on, call him a hypocrite or a dictator-worshipper (for which you can show no evidence btw) but know that you come off as an enormous hypocrite yourself. You've been programmed well sir.
- pxtail 8y ago
  American exceptionalism overload

Is it possible to reach superpower status without doing those things? Inevitably, to reach superpower status requires bending others to your will. And there will always be those that oppose you.

phyller 8y ago

I'm kind of thinking both the US and now China got there because of economics. At the end of WW2 US GDP was something like 50% of the entire world GDP. Most nations would be happy to do whatever they even thought the US wanted to have a good trade relationship and/or the aid that the US was passing around. And of course now China is the world's factory and more. Personally, I think once the US is gone and whatever happens afterwards happens, if history somehow remains accurate, I think people will see the last 75 years as a world-wide Pax America with the most benevolent world leadership that has ever existed. I'm sure I'll get downvoted to oblivion for this statement, but, big picture, the US has done more to provide peace and prosperity (and even freedom and justice) for a greater percentage of humanity than any other nation ever. If you look over human history, the natural human state is generally oppression, warfare, starvation, and disease. We just might be reverting back to the mean.

aplummer 8y ago
...except for helping create the conditions to WW2, Vietnam, involvement in Afghanistan 1 and 2, Iraq war prison industrial complex (highest prisoner per capita in the world) war on drugs, supplying weapons to places like Saudi Arabia. I agree that the USA has impacted many many lives very positively. I don’t think this extends to an overall net “peace and prosperity” claim. I didn’t downvote FWIW
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- slededit 8y ago
  None of those compare to Napoleon’s rampages or the subjugating of half the world by the British Empire. In the classical world raizing entire cities was not uncommon.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    The population growth makes any comparison difficult. For example, the Napoleonic wars killed about the same amount of people as the Vietnam War. As for razing entire cities, the Korean War saw the US essentially raze a country. To quote General LeMay >We went over there and fought the war and eventually burned down every town in North Korea anyway, some way or another, and some in South Korea, too.
  - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
    If you look at pictures of current wars, we still raise entire cities. Put 'Raqqa' in google image search for instance.
- joyeuse6701 8y ago
  Are you holding the United States responsible for WW2? Your other points I'd say are minor compared to the stability and transfer of wealth that has risen post WW2 under the U.S. world leadership.
  - aplummer 8y ago
    Minor? Read the numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War I don’t actually understand how you can even compare “transfer of wealth” and mass civilian casualties, let alone decide that the former is worth more. The WW2 reference is a bit of a captain hindsight addition and easily the most controversial. I only said contributed, I would leave that out to make my point clearer next time.
hopefulengineer 8y ago
reposting what I've said about this before: the US was the only country on earth that had nukes for 5 years and was unscathed from WWII. We could have demilitarized and enslaved the entire planet under threat of nuclear death, but instead we gave away billions to help Japan and Europe rebuild. There's never been a more selfless act in human history as far as a country not seizing an opportunity to gain power is concerned. There's probably never been a larger power disparity between a single country and the rest of the world than post WWII USA, and they did exactly nothing to take advantage of that disparity. US is far from perfect, mainly due to unconstitutional actions by our intel community and military, but as far as superpowers go there's really no comparison.
- BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
  > they did exactly nothing to take advantage of that disparity Oh come on, you cannot seriously believe that. Anyhow, I recommend you watch 'The Untold History of the United States' by Oliver Stone [0]. He has done a great job of telling people the stories that are not told in your history classes.
  - Audible_logic 8y ago
    Upvoted. I would strongly second this. Great documentary and offers a perspective of events that counters the common "Merciful America" ideology.
  - cbnotfromthere 8y ago
    Because of course a propaganda book from foaming at the mouth, dictator-worshiping, and Anti-American hypocrite Oliver Stone would provide truth. /facepalm.
    - BurnGpuBurn 8y ago
      They guy made a documentary, and journalistically speaking, his work checks out. There are no factual errors in his documentary you can point to, so go on, call him a hypocrite or a dictator-worshipper (for which you can show no evidence btw) but know that you come off as an enormous hypocrite yourself. You've been programmed well sir.
pxtail 8y ago
American exceptionalism overload