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I wish a new superpower wasn't authoritarian, shamelessly cheating, oppressive with humanitarian issues, IP theft, and straight up unapologetically Orwellian.
by fermienrico 8y ago
I wish a new superpower wasn't authoritarian, shamelessly cheating, oppressive with humanitarian issues, IP theft, and straight up unapologetically Orwellian.
Imagine if say, Sweden or Canada were to be the next upcoming superpower.
Another way to say it is - If China was a democratic nation with the highest level of freedom and openmindedness and fix the issues US has. I have nothing against any particular race.
Just venting out what kind of world I wish I would die to.
- zavi 8y agoThe question is: what is the practical path to that world?
- echevil 8y agoDon’t worry, if Canada or Sweden is close to become the next superpower, you’ll start to hear all kinds of negative reports about them.
- throwaway855 8y agoYup. When Japan was challenging the US in the 80s, there were pervasive smear campaigns, and this was towards essentially a US vassal. It culminated in the Plaza Accords, which stagnated Japan.
- dev_dull 8y agoDid they stagnate? Isn’t Japan one of the most advanced and prosperous countries in history? And this despite being hit with two atomic bombs even...
- boomboomsubban 8y agoIt is both true that they stagnated and are one of the most prosperous countries. Their rate of growth was unsustainably high for a period before the 90's.
- tormeh 8y agoThey have continued productivity growth, but the working-age population is shrinking, so it evens out to stagnation.
- fermienrico 8y agoNationalism is a glorified tribalism which causes war, death by the millions but in return provides a mechanism of competition which improves/pushes human race forward. What a monstrous dichotomy!
- friedman23 8y ago'stagnated' I don't even know what that means
- raverbashing 8y agoThey stagnated because of several reasons other than just the Plaza accord. Like real estate bubble, culture and isolationism, ageing population, etc.
- omilu 8y agoAre you implying that china doesn't steal trade secrets?
- throwaway855 8y agoIs it possible to reach superpower status without doing those things? Inevitably, to reach superpower status requires bending others to your will. And there will always be those that oppose you.
- phyller 8y agoI'm kind of thinking both the US and now China got there because of economics. At the end of WW2 US GDP was something like 50% of the entire world GDP. Most nations would be happy to do whatever they even thought the US wanted to have a good trade relationship and/or the aid that the US was passing around. And of course now China is the world's factory and more. Personally, I think once the US is gone and whatever happens afterwards happens, if history somehow remains accurate, I think people will see the last 75 years as a world-wide Pax America with the most benevolent world leadership that has ever existed. I'm sure I'll get downvoted to oblivion for this statement, but, big picture, the US has done more to provide peace and prosperity (and even freedom and justice) for a greater percentage of humanity than any other nation ever. If you look over human history, the natural human state is generally oppression, warfare, starvation, and disease. We just might be reverting back to the mean.
- aplummer 8y ago...except for helping create the conditions to WW2, Vietnam, involvement in Afghanistan 1 and 2, Iraq war prison industrial complex (highest prisoner per capita in the world) war on drugs, supplying weapons to places like Saudi Arabia. I agree that the USA has impacted many many lives very positively. I don’t think this extends to an overall net “peace and prosperity” claim. I didn’t downvote FWIW
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- slededit 8y agoNone of those compare to Napoleon’s rampages or the subjugating of half the world by the British Empire. In the classical world raizing entire cities was not uncommon.
- acct1771 8y agoSweden or Canada do not possess the qualities that have allowed power to accumulate for a nation/empire.
- jdblair 8y agoSweden was once a superpower. Or, at least a "great" power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire
- paganel 8y agoAnd they behaved as badly as today's super-powers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(history)#Swedish_invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(history)#Swedish_invas... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prague_(1648) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prague_(1648) > The main result, and probably the main aim, was to loot the fabulous art collection assembled in Prague Castle by Rudolph II, Holy Roman Emperor (1552–1612), the pick of which was taken down the Elbe in barges and shipped to Sweden
- ionised 8y agoYou mean militaristic expansionism?
- acct1771 8y agoPrecisely.
- cambaceres 8y agoThat was not really the point.
- taobility 8y agoUS always been complained as the cop of the world by the other countries. But I didn't see any American shamed about that.
- fermienrico 8y agoI am not sure why people hate the US so much. Almost always, we never hear something positive about the US despite of the evidence. Is it fancy to hate the US these days?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- flyinglizard 8y agoIt is one part lack of perspective and one part revolting against the establishment. We live in times of peace, prosperity and human rights thanks to US indoctrination and global military umbrella.
- Amygaz 8y agoAt this very moment, there are 60 war zones. I don’t know of any armed conflict that doesn’t baffle basic human rights, and doesn’t screw up the economy of the country where this happening. (I did not downvote btw)
- DyslexicAtheist 8y agoUS is the most hypocrite country in the world. Its people are the most stupid, ignorant, greedy, unhappy, entitled and racist in the West. The US (along with its other English speaking allies) are a shit-stain on Western culture. Few Americans actually understand the real America (Chris Hedges, Noam Chomsky, etc) but nobody listens to them because the majority is brainwashed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1-47VqgOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1-47VqgOs
- mda 8y ago
- ElBarto 8y agoThat's extremely naive. China is not 'cheating' more than any previous power. In fact, having been cheated badly they know that's there no such thing as playing nice. As for 'Orwellian', there's a big difference between what you see on TV and reality...
- Kaveren 8y agoDisappearances of citizens with forced apologies, if you say anything against the government you are crazy, Internet about as free as a house in the Hollywood Hills, other human rights abuses, social credit scores, total government surveillance. Sounds pretty bad to me.
- ElBarto 8y agoI trust you often visit China and know how it is.
- Kaveren 8y agoThat's not a denial that anything I said in the above comment is factually correct. It's like being told you can't judge what color an orange if you've never eaten one.
- ElBarto 8y agoYou can't discuss the taste of an orange if you only ever saw oranges on TV. I won't reply to strawman arguments from people who have never set foot in China. Suffice it to say that the epithet "Orwellian" does not represent life in China at all.
- Kaveren 8y agoYou did not deny any of these claims about the Chinese state: 1. Government surveillance of domestic citizens is far more intrusive than in any Western country. (NSA revelations are not a refutation). 2. Prominent citizens get disappeared. There is little to no transparency in the judicial process. 3. There is no freedom of speech in China. You cannot criticize the government from within the borders effectively without being in danger. 4. China does not have a free Internet in the sense any Western country does. 5. Social credit scores exist, and will be used to reinforce the government's authority. 6. There are ongoing human rights abuses in China other than what I've already mentioned. You can evade this all you want and talk about how nobody can possibly know about China unless they go there. But you can't refute any of these, so that is all you can do.
- qubax 8y ago> Imagine if say, Sweden or Canada were to be the next upcoming superpower. Because sweden or canada are such wonderful utopias? Wonder why they have such small populations? Wonder why so many canadians and swedes leave their paradises? > Another way to say it is - If China was a democratic nation with the highest level of freedom and openmindedness and fix the issues US has. Neither canada nor sweden falls into this category. Both have draconian censorship rules and aren't "open minded". > I have nothing against any particular race. China isn't a race. It's a country. > Just venting out what kind of world I wish I would die to. You are free to move to canada and sweden, if they let you.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago>Another way to say it is - If China was a democratic nation with the highest level of freedom and openmindedness and fix the issues US has. I would be surprised if they didn't have nearly the same freedoms we have in USA, if not more in some ways. A lot of their culture is based in confucianism as well, which makes their society different than USA. We have an oppressive system with humanitarian issues, that's unapologetically Orwellian, that cheats and lies. Our workplaces are authoritatian. I don't see us as too much different, just the USA really doesn't want to lose their #1 economic superpower status, so we're inundated with low quality propaganda. We're both capitalistic systems, China is not economically communist or the people would own the means of production. https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/rapporteur-United-Nations-San-Francisco-homeless-13351509.php https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/rapporteur-United-Natio...
- prions 8y agoNot too much different? I can speak out against the government here and not get disappeared, or have a negative impact on my social credit score. A social credit score which can limit my ability to associate with certain people, get good employment, good housing, and unrestricted travel. I don't understand how that translates to "nearly the same freedoms". Let's not get started either with freedom of religious worship as well.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago>I can speak out against the government here and not get disappeared Wrong. Try speaking out against the US government in any meaningful way and you'll be murdered by it. Dissent is not welcome here and you will be punished for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO >A social credit score which can limit my ability to associate with certain people, get good employment, good housing, and unrestricted travel. How is this different than our credit score system and 80% of people living paycheck to paycheck? Employers check it, housing checks it, travel is about to implement face scanning. Not seeing a huge difference here. There aren't even many good jobs (https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1809629002If https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1809629002If). If we don't fully have it yet, we sure as shit will soon. Everything we do is tracked, watched, listened to, recorded. Look up and view all of the easily hackable cameras loaded with back doors literally everywhere. It's really not much different than what we're told about China. Talking in work Slack I often get "move to Signal" because our workplaces are authoritatian and strip you of your rights when you walk in the door. Are there even any examples so far of China's social credit having any effect on anyone?
- loceng 8y agoThere is a time when we will have to take a stand against censorship and the like. Let's hope the process and outcome will of had as little violence as possible.