3 ms·

When the new office workers are going to look down into my hot tub and block my solar for half the day... then yes, the height is a pretty good proxy for the pr

by kurthr 8y ago

When the new office workers are going to look down into my hot tub and block my solar for half the day... then yes, the height is a pretty good proxy for the problem... unless they want to have offsets from the property line that prevent almost any significant building size on small lots. The problem is you always have to have a border between low rise and high rise development. The difference between having a 1 story next to you with an 8ft fence and having a 5 story next to you is huge. Also there is no dealing with the new parking issues that will be created unless suddenly people decide they want to ride city busses.

jacobolus 8y ago
5 stories is not a “high rise”. But in any event, if you live someplace with a shortage of housing supply relative to demand, including many people who would be happy to live in studio or 1-bedroom apartments, then it becomes absurd to have most available land zoned to only allow buildings with <2 story single family detached houses on largish lots with strict parking requirements and sad little unused yards in the back, as happens e.g. in San Francisco and many nearby cities. Housing prices get driven up to absurd levels making the whole region unaffordable except to the best-paid professionals. You end up with a large number of 2-bedroom single-family houses occupied by groups of 20-somethings sleeping in bunk beds; workers essential to the basic functioning of society commuting hours each way every day; schoolteachers working extra part-time jobs so they can afford to sleep in someone’s closet; families raising multiple kids while renting a small in-law unit in someone else’s back yard; people forced to move away when they get married because they can’t afford to live anywhere but their current rented multi-roommate spaces, the prices of everything in the economy going up but all of the difference siphoned off by large land-owners, .... Having a few people’s gardens shadowed for part of the day by 3–5 story apartment buildings just isn’t that big a problem in comparison.
- kurthr 8y ago
  What part of San Francisco with 1 story houses are you talking about? I lived there for 5 years and the only ones I remember were in the parks. Even the low density is almost all 2 story just to have a parking space. No, I'm talking about the burbs where they've decided to put 5 story commercial next to city blocks of single family homes on quarter acre lots. 2 stories would be fine... 25% of the houses are anyway. There's always going to be an edge to zoning, but going from 1 story to 5 is stupid. There's no parking, no transit, no shopping, just offices and houses. The commercial was single story and fit into the neighborhood, but now going 5 it's just going to cause problems.
  - Camillo 8y ago
    Your city probably doesn't care about urban design at all. They want the tax money from businesses, but they also want to restrict housing, so they have to spend less on services and property costs rise as much as possible. Therefore, 2 stories residential is too much, but 5 stories business is fine.
    - kurthr 8y ago
      I think there's something to what you say... but I also follow the general rule of politics, follow the money. The developers/RE give the most money and they get what they want where they want it. I kinda hope that the city at least realizes that most housing won't pay for its city services with taxes, but I really think it's more short term money grab by influential people investing Other People's Money. They don't care what happens after they've sold it.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    More than half of the area of San Francisco is zoned to only allow single family houses or (in some parts) duplexes, with height limited to about 2 stories. 3–5 story apartment buildings are not allowed. All the pale yellow part, https://sf-planning.org/zoning-map https://sf-planning.org/zoning-map What city do you live in?
    - kurthr 8y ago
      I moved out of town where demand is likely to pick up when the tech 30 somethings discover they don't want to raise kids in the city. I watched the city get decimated of artists, great restaurants, and interesting architecture in the 2000 boom and again recently. The number of people who have to commute in just to support the lifestyle of higher incomes and the neighborhood color they squeeze out is part of what got me to leave. People who grew up there, love the city, and want to contribute to making it better deserve a chance to stay rather than getting gentrified out. I also hate the empty buildings on Prop13 valuations waiting for prices to go up even more. https://www.salon.com/2018/11/04/despite-thorough-debunking-neoliberal-housing-politics-prevail-in-the-bay-area/ https://www.salon.com/2018/11/04/despite-thorough-debunking-... YIMBY won't reduce the homeless population, make housing more affordable, or the city more livable... it's not a simple market and pretending it is won't solve the problems.

by kurthr 8y ago

jacobolus 8y ago

5 stories is not a “high rise”. But in any event, if you live someplace with a shortage of housing supply relative to demand, including many people who would be happy to live in studio or 1-bedroom apartments, then it becomes absurd to have most available land zoned to only allow buildings with <2 story single family detached houses on largish lots with strict parking requirements and sad little unused yards in the back, as happens e.g. in San Francisco and many nearby cities. Housing prices get driven up to absurd levels making the whole region unaffordable except to the best-paid professionals. You end up with a large number of 2-bedroom single-family houses occupied by groups of 20-somethings sleeping in bunk beds; workers essential to the basic functioning of society commuting hours each way every day; schoolteachers working extra part-time jobs so they can afford to sleep in someone’s closet; families raising multiple kids while renting a small in-law unit in someone else’s back yard; people forced to move away when they get married because they can’t afford to live anywhere but their current rented multi-roommate spaces, the prices of everything in the economy going up but all of the difference siphoned off by large land-owners, .... Having a few people’s gardens shadowed for part of the day by 3–5 story apartment buildings just isn’t that big a problem in comparison.

kurthr 8y ago
What part of San Francisco with 1 story houses are you talking about? I lived there for 5 years and the only ones I remember were in the parks. Even the low density is almost all 2 story just to have a parking space. No, I'm talking about the burbs where they've decided to put 5 story commercial next to city blocks of single family homes on quarter acre lots. 2 stories would be fine... 25% of the houses are anyway. There's always going to be an edge to zoning, but going from 1 story to 5 is stupid. There's no parking, no transit, no shopping, just offices and houses. The commercial was single story and fit into the neighborhood, but now going 5 it's just going to cause problems.
- Camillo 8y ago
  Your city probably doesn't care about urban design at all. They want the tax money from businesses, but they also want to restrict housing, so they have to spend less on services and property costs rise as much as possible. Therefore, 2 stories residential is too much, but 5 stories business is fine.
  - kurthr 8y ago
    I think there's something to what you say... but I also follow the general rule of politics, follow the money. The developers/RE give the most money and they get what they want where they want it. I kinda hope that the city at least realizes that most housing won't pay for its city services with taxes, but I really think it's more short term money grab by influential people investing Other People's Money. They don't care what happens after they've sold it.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  More than half of the area of San Francisco is zoned to only allow single family houses or (in some parts) duplexes, with height limited to about 2 stories. 3–5 story apartment buildings are not allowed. All the pale yellow part, https://sf-planning.org/zoning-map https://sf-planning.org/zoning-map What city do you live in?
  - kurthr 8y ago
    I moved out of town where demand is likely to pick up when the tech 30 somethings discover they don't want to raise kids in the city. I watched the city get decimated of artists, great restaurants, and interesting architecture in the 2000 boom and again recently. The number of people who have to commute in just to support the lifestyle of higher incomes and the neighborhood color they squeeze out is part of what got me to leave. People who grew up there, love the city, and want to contribute to making it better deserve a chance to stay rather than getting gentrified out. I also hate the empty buildings on Prop13 valuations waiting for prices to go up even more. https://www.salon.com/2018/11/04/despite-thorough-debunking-neoliberal-housing-politics-prevail-in-the-bay-area/ https://www.salon.com/2018/11/04/despite-thorough-debunking-... YIMBY won't reduce the homeless population, make housing more affordable, or the city more livable... it's not a simple market and pretending it is won't solve the problems.