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I actually hate the fact that in USA you can only shop for groceries in a supermarket that is 5 miles away. Problem with that is that if you happen to run out

by mamon 8y ago

I actually hate the fact that in USA you can only shop for groceries in a supermarket that is 5 miles away. Problem with that is that if you happen to run out of milk,or salt, etc., you have to plan the whole trip, instead just quickly coming downstairs and buying it in the grocery store that is in the same building as your apartment. Another problem is that instead of buying fresh bread everyday in your local bakery you have to buy this packaged, loaded with chemical conservants shit that supermarkets sell. Grocery store within walking distance should be considered a human right :)

dragonwriter 8y ago
> I actually hate the fact that in USA you can only shop for groceries in a supermarket that is 5 miles away. Even in most suburban areas (much less urban; rural areasmay have his problem but it's kind of the nature of the beast) this is far from true, even before considering the availability of grocery delivery services. > Another problem is that instead of buying fresh bread everyday in your local bakery you have to buy this packaged, loaded with chemical conservants shit that supermarkets sell. In most (again, non-rural) places where you have a long drive to the grocery store, you'll also have a long daily commute to work and a fresh bakery (dedicated or attached to a grocery store) with very little deviation from the commute route, so it's quite possible to buy bakery-fresh bread every day if you want.
sandworm101 8y ago
>> this packaged, loaded with chemical conservants shit that supermarkets sell. My grocery store sells normal bread. Just plain stuff with normal ingredients. Baked on site. But here too refrigeration has a part. The supermarket "bakery" starts from frozen blobs of dough that are created offsite and stored until the day they are needed. Because they are transported frozen and/or very cold, they don't need any preservatives. The tiny grocery in your building won't have the capacity to run a bakery and so will have to stock preservative-filled loaves. The shift to larger "destination" grocery stores often means fresher foods. Look at costsco. Hate it as a big-box store, but their turnover means they can run a full bakery without caring about shelf life. The tomatoes sold at my Costco are also fresher than those at any local grocery because they come strait from the greenhouses without middlemen distribution networks.
burfog 8y ago
In normal American suburban traffic, 5 miles is only 7 minutes. A typical person can walk only 1900 feet in that time. Getting that for everybody would pretty much require paving America with supermarkets. Consider the sizes of some supermarkets near me, roughly estimated in feet: 250x200, 250x250, 250x300. All of these have lots that are nearly 1000x1000, though shared with other stores. So for walking to be equally fast, ignoring the need to carry groceries, we'd need 50% of the land to be supermarkets. The benefit of the normal supermarket gets even bigger if there are people in the household who can't reasonably walk to a store on their own. Kids need to be watched. Elderly and obese people have trouble carrying groceries for 1900 feet. Shopping would mean taking trips all day long, one for each bag of groceries, so 1900 feet is really way too far. Cut that down to compensate though, and then there physically isn't enough room for all the required supermarkets!
- batiudrami 8y ago
  7 minutes is disingenuous when you consider the time spent getting into your car at one end, finding a park at the other, walking between the car park and the shop, navigating the (large) shop and waiting at a checkout. All these things are simpler and quicker if you can pop out, walk a few blocks to a (much smaller) corner store and grab the things you need. For me walking a 2.5km round trip to my nearest local store vs driving the 8km return to my supermarket both take about half an hour if I'm grabbing a couple of things. In terms of space - no one is suggesting these grocery stores should be the same size as a supermarket - if they are less centralised they need to hold less stock and can be smaller. If you can walk there, you don't need enormous car parks. It may not be as ~efficient~ but it sure makes for a nicer existence.
  - mamon 8y ago
    The other thing is that with mixed zoning you can get so much more than just grocery stores. My neighborhood has the following within the 1000 feet radius: - grocery store (x3) - dentist's office (x2) - hairdressing salon - pharmacy - kingergarten (x2) - pizzeria - Starbucks - music school - post office None of this thins ruins the overall experience, because they all are small scale and none of them has their own parking lot - they are located at the ground floor of residential buildings (except music school which has it's own small building). Kindergardens are most interesting case because they both are actually just apartments adapted to their new role, so each of them hosts maybe 20-30 kids.

by mamon 8y ago

dragonwriter 8y ago

> I actually hate the fact that in USA you can only shop for groceries in a supermarket that is 5 miles away. Even in most suburban areas (much less urban; rural areasmay have his problem but it's kind of the nature of the beast) this is far from true, even before considering the availability of grocery delivery services. > Another problem is that instead of buying fresh bread everyday in your local bakery you have to buy this packaged, loaded with chemical conservants shit that supermarkets sell. In most (again, non-rural) places where you have a long drive to the grocery store, you'll also have a long daily commute to work and a fresh bakery (dedicated or attached to a grocery store) with very little deviation from the commute route, so it's quite possible to buy bakery-fresh bread every day if you want.

sandworm101 8y ago

>> this packaged, loaded with chemical conservants shit that supermarkets sell. My grocery store sells normal bread. Just plain stuff with normal ingredients. Baked on site. But here too refrigeration has a part. The supermarket "bakery" starts from frozen blobs of dough that are created offsite and stored until the day they are needed. Because they are transported frozen and/or very cold, they don't need any preservatives. The tiny grocery in your building won't have the capacity to run a bakery and so will have to stock preservative-filled loaves. The shift to larger "destination" grocery stores often means fresher foods. Look at costsco. Hate it as a big-box store, but their turnover means they can run a full bakery without caring about shelf life. The tomatoes sold at my Costco are also fresher than those at any local grocery because they come strait from the greenhouses without middlemen distribution networks.

burfog 8y ago

In normal American suburban traffic, 5 miles is only 7 minutes. A typical person can walk only 1900 feet in that time. Getting that for everybody would pretty much require paving America with supermarkets. Consider the sizes of some supermarkets near me, roughly estimated in feet: 250x200, 250x250, 250x300. All of these have lots that are nearly 1000x1000, though shared with other stores. So for walking to be equally fast, ignoring the need to carry groceries, we'd need 50% of the land to be supermarkets. The benefit of the normal supermarket gets even bigger if there are people in the household who can't reasonably walk to a store on their own. Kids need to be watched. Elderly and obese people have trouble carrying groceries for 1900 feet. Shopping would mean taking trips all day long, one for each bag of groceries, so 1900 feet is really way too far. Cut that down to compensate though, and then there physically isn't enough room for all the required supermarkets!

batiudrami 8y ago
7 minutes is disingenuous when you consider the time spent getting into your car at one end, finding a park at the other, walking between the car park and the shop, navigating the (large) shop and waiting at a checkout. All these things are simpler and quicker if you can pop out, walk a few blocks to a (much smaller) corner store and grab the things you need. For me walking a 2.5km round trip to my nearest local store vs driving the 8km return to my supermarket both take about half an hour if I'm grabbing a couple of things. In terms of space - no one is suggesting these grocery stores should be the same size as a supermarket - if they are less centralised they need to hold less stock and can be smaller. If you can walk there, you don't need enormous car parks. It may not be as ~efficient~ but it sure makes for a nicer existence.
- mamon 8y ago
  The other thing is that with mixed zoning you can get so much more than just grocery stores. My neighborhood has the following within the 1000 feet radius: - grocery store (x3) - dentist's office (x2) - hairdressing salon - pharmacy - kingergarten (x2) - pizzeria - Starbucks - music school - post office None of this thins ruins the overall experience, because they all are small scale and none of them has their own parking lot - they are located at the ground floor of residential buildings (except music school which has it's own small building). Kindergardens are most interesting case because they both are actually just apartments adapted to their new role, so each of them hosts maybe 20-30 kids.