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That premise is true, just not in the way you think. Societies with uncontrollable violence tend to have informal codes of politeness designed to prevent violen
by x220 8y ago
That premise is true, just not in the way you think. Societies with uncontrollable violence tend to have informal codes of politeness designed to prevent violence and are far more likely to have gangs with honor codes. This does not necessarily make the society less violent, it just means you have more rules to navigate so you don't lose your protection or piss off some powerful person.
- pjc50 8y agoIt was always premised on the idea that implicitly threatening someone with violence is "polite". It also breaks down rapidly when people have had a few drinks.
- x220 8y agoPoliteness is all about rules. A society where people tend to follow complex rules of social interaction is polite, even if it becomes very violent if someone breaks those rules. That's why they are rules in the first place: they are enforced with violence or shame. I don't think I'd be able to find a single large society where people are polite but face no risk of violence or intense social shame when they break the rules.
- tomjakubowski 8y agoInteresting. I suppose I'm guilty of conflating politeness and "civilizedness".
- kurthr 8y agoExactly, it can apparently be perfectly polite to threaten to murder someone (shame if anything was to happen to you...), but not polite to use the wrong fork in your salad. I suppose it depends on what you think is polite. On the other hand, I think it's generally true that social solutions come up to problems that regularly present themselves, but we tend to forget about those formalisms that aren't often used. That doesn't imply the social solutions are particularly fair or globally effective. Imagine a situation where you almost never have to worry about another driver cutting you off in traffic, but you know your chance of being shot in a road rage incidence goes up 5x. Is it worth it and does the implied threat really more polite (eg in an emergency) ?
- rv-de 8y agoI noticed that in cultures where violence is a more accepted form of behavior it is much less likely that someone will bump into me on a busy street. In places like Split (Croatia) or Istanbul there is more natural inclination to grant some space when passing. The most bumps I get in Germany with Munich claiming the first place. I used to joke that the citizens of Munich simply aren't afraid enough of getting stabbed or beaten up and hence use any minor inconvenience as an opportunity to make a statement.
- dmichulke 8y agoI have travelled a few times to Munich and never had anyone bump into me (you're not talking of Oktoberfest, are you?). However, there is one such city for me, it's the only city I ever got bumped into twice in a single day by (seemingly sober) busy pedestrians: Prague
- contingencies 8y agoHaha, come to Asia. You people haven't seen a thing. Not only are there far more people in far less space but personal space norms are drastically reduced, and in some cultures queuing unheard of. Here in China doing anything amongst a group in public is like catching a schoolbus... elbows out, grannies included!
- sasaf5 8y agoAnd elevators: everyone cramps in as if it was the last bus.
- aluren 8y agoWhere in the world are you getting the notion that violence is more accepted in Croatia or Turkey than in Germany?
- travmatt 8y agoAccording to Wikipedia, the per capita homicide rate of turkey is approximately 3.5 times higher than that of germany. Croatia is actually less than that of Germany, although they did fight a very nasty war in the early 90’s and that may have colored some people’s perception of the country.