4 ms·

If they just switch jobs, they lose the ability to change the culture.

citilife 8y ago
As a low level employee it's not really your responsibility to try and change the culture. It's your job to find a place with a culture that fits you. Fact is, changing a corporations culture is almost impossible. It's set over time by the people who work their and their policies. The people you hire, then hire more people, and so on indefinitely. Google is pretty much stuck with this culture for the foreseeable future. The only thing that can change are policies. Which sure, these employees may be able to change. However, the culture that puts these policies in place will likely persist.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  There's no place for 'sexual harassment' culture, period. If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office, would you just pack up and find a new job?
  - citilife 8y ago
    > There's no place for 'sexual harassment' culture, period. First of all, they appear to be firing / asking people to leave in the standard corporate way. Yes, it's common to pay people to leave to avoid a lawsuit. Might not be pretty, but it's the reality we live in. I agree that should probably change, but walking out is not really impacting the company at all. Which brings me to the point, leaving does impact the company. If massive numbers of engineers quit, that'd actually cause way more pain than taking a walk around the building. Finally: > If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office, would you just pack up and find a new job? Not even close to the same level, but yes I'd leave. I'd also probably report them to the police. Why the hell would I stay there?
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      > Not even close to the same level, but yes I'd leave. Sure, I used a more serious offense, but they are both illegal activities so the reaction should not be too different. > I'd also probably report them to the police. Why the hell would I stay there? My point exactly.
      - citilife 8y ago
        Just for reference sexual harassment is illegal / legal depending on your location and offense. I don't know about all cases and at risk of engaging you further -- it's often the company the bears legal responsibility to create a safe work environment (not the employee). Meaning, the company can be held liable if they did nothing with the complaints. That typically means they need to remove the person (if there is evidence) that committed the act. That does not necessarily mean that a lewd remark is illegal (it is typically not). I am not saying anything is "correct" or "incorrect", "moral" or "immoral". I am explaining that most sexual harassment is not illegal behavior. The only thing that could be illegal is not doing something to rectify the situation.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Just for reference sexual harassment is illegal / legal depending on your location and offense. Sexual harassment is the name for a particular category of unlawful behavior by an employer to an employee. > I am explaining that most sexual harassment is not illegal behavior If it is not yet illegal behavior, it is conduct short of sexual harassment, by definition.
        citilife 8y ago
        > Sexual harassment is the name for a particular category of unlawful behavior by an employer to an employee. Indeed - which was my point. It's not necessarily the perpetrator who's held legally accountable. It's the organization. So, from a legal stand point. The perpetrator may not be breaking the law, the organization may. Thus, most sexual harassment by an individual is not in itself illegal. It's in the context of their place of employment. This is semantics, but plays a large impact as to why (for instance) employees are paid to leave as opposed to fired.
  - rinchik 8y ago
    > "If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office" What an idiotic comparison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man , like really?). I get your point that some stuff should never be happening in a work place, but you should be able to articulate it properly in order to be taken seriously.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      What an idiotic comment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy, like really?).
davidcbc 8y ago
This, plus perhaps women shouldn't be forced to switch jobs (or at this point, maybe even industries) to not be sexually harassed at work.

As a low level employee it's not really your responsibility to try and change the culture. It's your job to find a place with a culture that fits you. Fact is, changing a corporations culture is almost impossible. It's set over time by the people who work their and their policies. The people you hire, then hire more people, and so on indefinitely. Google is pretty much stuck with this culture for the foreseeable future. The only thing that can change are policies. Which sure, these employees may be able to change. However, the culture that puts these policies in place will likely persist.

craftyguy 8y ago
There's no place for 'sexual harassment' culture, period. If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office, would you just pack up and find a new job?
- citilife 8y ago
  > There's no place for 'sexual harassment' culture, period. First of all, they appear to be firing / asking people to leave in the standard corporate way. Yes, it's common to pay people to leave to avoid a lawsuit. Might not be pretty, but it's the reality we live in. I agree that should probably change, but walking out is not really impacting the company at all. Which brings me to the point, leaving does impact the company. If massive numbers of engineers quit, that'd actually cause way more pain than taking a walk around the building. Finally: > If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office, would you just pack up and find a new job? Not even close to the same level, but yes I'd leave. I'd also probably report them to the police. Why the hell would I stay there?
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    > Not even close to the same level, but yes I'd leave. Sure, I used a more serious offense, but they are both illegal activities so the reaction should not be too different. > I'd also probably report them to the police. Why the hell would I stay there? My point exactly.
    - citilife 8y ago
      Just for reference sexual harassment is illegal / legal depending on your location and offense. I don't know about all cases and at risk of engaging you further -- it's often the company the bears legal responsibility to create a safe work environment (not the employee). Meaning, the company can be held liable if they did nothing with the complaints. That typically means they need to remove the person (if there is evidence) that committed the act. That does not necessarily mean that a lewd remark is illegal (it is typically not). I am not saying anything is "correct" or "incorrect", "moral" or "immoral". I am explaining that most sexual harassment is not illegal behavior. The only thing that could be illegal is not doing something to rectify the situation.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Just for reference sexual harassment is illegal / legal depending on your location and offense. Sexual harassment is the name for a particular category of unlawful behavior by an employer to an employee. > I am explaining that most sexual harassment is not illegal behavior If it is not yet illegal behavior, it is conduct short of sexual harassment, by definition.
        citilife 8y ago
        > Sexual harassment is the name for a particular category of unlawful behavior by an employer to an employee. Indeed - which was my point. It's not necessarily the perpetrator who's held legally accountable. It's the organization. So, from a legal stand point. The perpetrator may not be breaking the law, the organization may. Thus, most sexual harassment by an individual is not in itself illegal. It's in the context of their place of employment. This is semantics, but plays a large impact as to why (for instance) employees are paid to leave as opposed to fired.
- rinchik 8y ago
  > "If your employer started murdering people in the streets outside your office" What an idiotic comparison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man , like really?). I get your point that some stuff should never be happening in a work place, but you should be able to articulate it properly in order to be taken seriously.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    What an idiotic comment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy, like really?).

davidcbc 8y ago

This, plus perhaps women shouldn't be forced to switch jobs (or at this point, maybe even industries) to not be sexually harassed at work.