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> Our society was built on large amounts of discretion being exercised by law enforcement This I get. > and the ability to convincingly lie to law enforcement

by del82 8y ago

> Our society was built on large amounts of discretion being exercised by law enforcement This I get. > and the ability to convincingly lie to law enforcement. This less so. Can you elaborate?

unethical_ban 8y ago
Sometimes, law enforcement can only be lenient (the first part of my original post can only hold) if it's "on the record" that you say something excusable. The LEO might know it's probably a lie, but either they understand a circumstance doesn't merit citation, or they know it's a crappy law. If everything were some day 100% honest, the polite niceties of "oh sorry didn't see the speed limit change" or "Forgot I left my pocket knife in carryon, sorry" would go away. Of course these are only two of countless examples.
- thfuran 8y ago
  Eliminating the shit laws is a much better solution than ignoring them or working around them with lies.
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    It seems to me that the concept is basically analogous to the idea people have that we should eliminate the human element from contract enforcement. Or suppose we tried to eliminate all tolerances and slippage in engineering. It's utopian/dystopian and even seriously attempting it would be disastrous, in my opinion. I don't see why people need to touch the hot stove to understand that.
  - unethical_ban 8y ago
    I don't think that's reasonable. Speed limits aren't shit, but it's good to have officer discretion on it.
    - Groxx 8y ago
      so... add a clause for officer discretion, like is already implied to exist? having it as an invisible clause doesn't make it any more or less game-able.
thecatspaw 8y ago
If you cannot lie to law enforcement it makes it a lot harder to overthrow a fascist regime for example. "Do you have any intention of overthrowing the government?" - "No" - beep, and now you're in a forced labor camp
ameister14 8y ago
Are you currently engaged in an activity that may not be in the interest of the Monarchy?

by del82 8y ago

> Our society was built on large amounts of discretion being exercised by law enforcement This I get. > and the ability to convincingly lie to law enforcement. This less so. Can you elaborate?

unethical_ban 8y ago

Sometimes, law enforcement can only be lenient (the first part of my original post can only hold) if it's "on the record" that you say something excusable. The LEO might know it's probably a lie, but either they understand a circumstance doesn't merit citation, or they know it's a crappy law. If everything were some day 100% honest, the polite niceties of "oh sorry didn't see the speed limit change" or "Forgot I left my pocket knife in carryon, sorry" would go away. Of course these are only two of countless examples.

thfuran 8y ago
Eliminating the shit laws is a much better solution than ignoring them or working around them with lies.
- perl4ever 8y ago
  It seems to me that the concept is basically analogous to the idea people have that we should eliminate the human element from contract enforcement. Or suppose we tried to eliminate all tolerances and slippage in engineering. It's utopian/dystopian and even seriously attempting it would be disastrous, in my opinion. I don't see why people need to touch the hot stove to understand that.
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  I don't think that's reasonable. Speed limits aren't shit, but it's good to have officer discretion on it.
  - Groxx 8y ago
    so... add a clause for officer discretion, like is already implied to exist? having it as an invisible clause doesn't make it any more or less game-able.

thecatspaw 8y ago

If you cannot lie to law enforcement it makes it a lot harder to overthrow a fascist regime for example. "Do you have any intention of overthrowing the government?" - "No" - beep, and now you're in a forced labor camp

ameister14 8y ago

Are you currently engaged in an activity that may not be in the interest of the Monarchy?