4 ms·

Why do you trust governments so much?

bilbo0s 8y ago
To be fair, all sides trust the government. We're trusting the government to go in and properly split up a company. Or you're trusting the government to properly regulate a company. The people who don't trust the government, don't want the government to take ANY action. They believe the market will solve the problem.
- vlunkr 8y ago
  So all sides trust the government except for the ones that don't
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    And the ones that don't, have not stated their position in this discussion. So all sides presenting in this discussion, trust the government.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  > To be fair, all sides trust the government. > The people who don't trust the government, don't want the government to take ANY action Which is it?
criddell 8y ago
You don't have to have a lot of trust in the government, just more than you do in corporations. That's not a terribly high bar.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  For what it's worth there are some corporations I'd trust a lot more than the government.
  - throwaway2048 8y ago
    See how stable that remains over time however, your data is out there forever, even when $CORP turns evil.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  > You don't have to have a lot of trust in the government, just more than you do in corporations. Corporations (sans legal monopoly) have power over their constituents insofar as their products are desirable. Governments have power over their constituents with physical force. It is 1000x easier for me to delete my Facebook account than for me to move to another country and change my citizenship.
arendtio 8y ago
Where did I say something about 'trust' and 'government'? Seriously, I don't get the connection.
- efsavage 8y ago
  "bound by law"
  - arendtio 8y ago
    That doesn't imply that I 'trust the government'. I mean, trust is not binary. I trust politicians as far as I think that what they do fits their agenda. So I don't have any trust in 'the government' without context. The reason why I think a law would be the appropriate solution is - that the companies have no interest in changing anything towards an (e.g., privacy friendlier system) as it would endanger their market position and therefore their profits - in the current situation, the majority of people has few alternatives, so they can't 'buy their facebook somewhere else' - for new competitors, it is quite hard to compete even with a single product not to mention a whole set of them So it doesn't look like the market will find a solution anytime soon. I am not a fan of too much regulation either. Many laws have problems addressing the real issue and take too long until their are changed appropriately, but most laws cause costs anyway (not just financially).
- admay 8y ago
  Your suggestion that large companies ought to be "bound by law" implies regulations by the government. Whether or not that is your intention is still up in the air. However, if the government owns the regulation then they get to set the standards of what a big company is on a per criteria basis. If the government is being attacked by a specific 'group', the government will then have the power to impose specific, targeted regulations on that group's web presence. Without the legislation, this is a matter of freedom of speech and is quickly resolved by the first amendment. It would be incredibly difficult to fight that off. However, with legislation in place that affords the government the power to impose such regulations, they can quickly and most importantly (read terrifyingly) silence people on the web.

To be fair, all sides trust the government. We're trusting the government to go in and properly split up a company. Or you're trusting the government to properly regulate a company. The people who don't trust the government, don't want the government to take ANY action. They believe the market will solve the problem.

vlunkr 8y ago
So all sides trust the government except for the ones that don't
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  And the ones that don't, have not stated their position in this discussion. So all sides presenting in this discussion, trust the government.
paulddraper 8y ago
> To be fair, all sides trust the government. > The people who don't trust the government, don't want the government to take ANY action Which is it?

criddell 8y ago

You don't have to have a lot of trust in the government, just more than you do in corporations. That's not a terribly high bar.

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
For what it's worth there are some corporations I'd trust a lot more than the government.
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  See how stable that remains over time however, your data is out there forever, even when $CORP turns evil.
paulddraper 8y ago
> You don't have to have a lot of trust in the government, just more than you do in corporations. Corporations (sans legal monopoly) have power over their constituents insofar as their products are desirable. Governments have power over their constituents with physical force. It is 1000x easier for me to delete my Facebook account than for me to move to another country and change my citizenship.

arendtio 8y ago

Where did I say something about 'trust' and 'government'? Seriously, I don't get the connection.

efsavage 8y ago
"bound by law"
- arendtio 8y ago
  That doesn't imply that I 'trust the government'. I mean, trust is not binary. I trust politicians as far as I think that what they do fits their agenda. So I don't have any trust in 'the government' without context. The reason why I think a law would be the appropriate solution is - that the companies have no interest in changing anything towards an (e.g., privacy friendlier system) as it would endanger their market position and therefore their profits - in the current situation, the majority of people has few alternatives, so they can't 'buy their facebook somewhere else' - for new competitors, it is quite hard to compete even with a single product not to mention a whole set of them So it doesn't look like the market will find a solution anytime soon. I am not a fan of too much regulation either. Many laws have problems addressing the real issue and take too long until their are changed appropriately, but most laws cause costs anyway (not just financially).
admay 8y ago
Your suggestion that large companies ought to be "bound by law" implies regulations by the government. Whether or not that is your intention is still up in the air. However, if the government owns the regulation then they get to set the standards of what a big company is on a per criteria basis. If the government is being attacked by a specific 'group', the government will then have the power to impose specific, targeted regulations on that group's web presence. Without the legislation, this is a matter of freedom of speech and is quickly resolved by the first amendment. It would be incredibly difficult to fight that off. However, with legislation in place that affords the government the power to impose such regulations, they can quickly and most importantly (read terrifyingly) silence people on the web.