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We evolved to adapt to our environment and we are not some kind of 'final form' that we are stuck with forever, we are still evolving. And people are able to ex

by ab71e5 8y ago

We evolved to adapt to our environment and we are not some kind of 'final form' that we are stuck with forever, we are still evolving. And people are able to extract nutrients from plants just fine. Also the two incisors do not have to determine anyone's diet. Now if you don't want to be be a vegetarian fine but don't tell me it's impossible because that's just not true.

village-idiot 8y ago
> We evolved to adapt to our environment and we are not some kind of 'final form' that we are stuck with forever, we are still evolving. As a species we are evolving, as an individual you are not. You can argue that humans might become herbivores in the next few 10,000 years, but don't expect to see it in your lifetime. I also would argue that the individuals who are trying to consciously work against where we've evolved from will face some negative effects, even if their intentions are good. > the two incisors do not have to determine anyone's diet. We actually have 4 incisors and 4 canines, for a total of 25% of our teeth. In general teeth are a good indication of what a species eats, since the teeth and the rest of the organism evolved together. Teeth are also a fantastic indicator of the health of the individual, anthropologists use the rate of cavities to tell how healthy the individual and society was. Coincidentally, vegetarians have a higher rate of cavities than the population at large. > Now if you don't want to be be a vegetarian fine but don't tell me it's impossible because that's just not true. I would kindly appreciate you not making up what I'm arguing and putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying humans are obligate carnivores, I'm saying they're omnivores. That means that we can survive off plants, I just think it's a bad idea.
- gnosis89 8y ago
  Individuals can and do evolve, and then they pass that on to their children, that's how evolution works. Biological evolution is a very long and slow process, technological evolution is not. That's why our teeth are a poor indication of what we should be eating because of this revolutionary thing called cooking. Our teeth are records of our past evolution, not rules for our future or current evolution. The claim that vegetarians have higher rates of cavities is total bullshit. They actually have better dental hygiene.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Bzzzt, no. Individuals do not evolve new genetic features after birth. You will not change your teeth structure genetically in your lifetime, unless if you take up hockey or bare knuckle boxing. Your kids might have a mutation from you that’ll change their teeth, but statistically they won’t. There’s also an ongoing debate about to what degree humans face evolutionary pressures anymore. Without some selection to pick one mutation over the other, it’s unclear which direction we will evolve. Teeth are a good record of how the individual evolved to eat, which is indeed in the past. But you have no idea where the evolution will take us, and that’ll take thousands of years, and again individuals do not evolve. So yes, teeth still matter. I’m glad you have good teeth, but I’ll remind you that anecdotes are not data.
    - gnosis89 8y ago
      Now you're hopping from evolution to genetic features as though they are the same thing. I never mentioned that I have good teeth or that I was vegetarian, nor is it anecdotal that vegetarians have better dental hygiene. I highly doubt our teeth will change at all because people don't die from lack of a certain tooth. Teeth don't matter when you can literally have all fake teeth and get by eating just fine. In fact, we often remove teeth because we have too many. Again, individuals do evolve, which is not the same as suddenly getting new distinct physical features half way through your life, which actually can happen so you're also wrong about that.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - village-idiot 8y ago
        You keep asserting, sans proof, that individuals evolve. Unfortunately for you, the experts disagree[0-2]. Evolution is something that happens to a population, not an individual. > I highly doubt our teeth will change at all because people don't die from lack of a certain tooth. Yes, I made this point. But that was not true when humans evolved into our current form, right around when the rest of us evolved. Until relatively recently, humans did die from dental cavities, and we haven't changed significantly in 1,000 years, so the point stands. > nor is it anecdotal that vegetarians have better dental hygiene. Which would be a good point if I was trying to claim that. I said they had worse health, which is diet and behavior related. The big one for me is K2. There is only one vegan source of K2, natto, all other sources are either animal or meat based. K2 is critical for a lot of things, including tooth cells. Vegans and vegetarians are showing higher rates of tooth decay (not cavities, I misread) than the rest of the population[3]. Doesn't really matter how much they're brushing, it's diet driven. > Again, individuals do evolve [Citation needed] > which is not the same as suddenly getting new distinct physical features half way through your life You're right that meaningful mutations might be at the protein level, but you're not going to start synthesizing brand new proteins either. 0. http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec09.html http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/l... 1. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a4 https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq... 2. https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53371/what-is-meant-by-individuals-do-not-evolve-populations-do https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53371/what-is-me... 3. https://www.deltadentalwa.com/blog/entry/2018/07/vegan-diet-dental-health https://www.deltadentalwa.com/blog/entry/2018/07/vegan-diet-...

by ab71e5 8y ago

village-idiot 8y ago

> We evolved to adapt to our environment and we are not some kind of 'final form' that we are stuck with forever, we are still evolving. As a species we are evolving, as an individual you are not. You can argue that humans might become herbivores in the next few 10,000 years, but don't expect to see it in your lifetime. I also would argue that the individuals who are trying to consciously work against where we've evolved from will face some negative effects, even if their intentions are good. > the two incisors do not have to determine anyone's diet. We actually have 4 incisors and 4 canines, for a total of 25% of our teeth. In general teeth are a good indication of what a species eats, since the teeth and the rest of the organism evolved together. Teeth are also a fantastic indicator of the health of the individual, anthropologists use the rate of cavities to tell how healthy the individual and society was. Coincidentally, vegetarians have a higher rate of cavities than the population at large. > Now if you don't want to be be a vegetarian fine but don't tell me it's impossible because that's just not true. I would kindly appreciate you not making up what I'm arguing and putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying humans are obligate carnivores, I'm saying they're omnivores. That means that we can survive off plants, I just think it's a bad idea.

gnosis89 8y ago
Individuals can and do evolve, and then they pass that on to their children, that's how evolution works. Biological evolution is a very long and slow process, technological evolution is not. That's why our teeth are a poor indication of what we should be eating because of this revolutionary thing called cooking. Our teeth are records of our past evolution, not rules for our future or current evolution. The claim that vegetarians have higher rates of cavities is total bullshit. They actually have better dental hygiene.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Bzzzt, no. Individuals do not evolve new genetic features after birth. You will not change your teeth structure genetically in your lifetime, unless if you take up hockey or bare knuckle boxing. Your kids might have a mutation from you that’ll change their teeth, but statistically they won’t. There’s also an ongoing debate about to what degree humans face evolutionary pressures anymore. Without some selection to pick one mutation over the other, it’s unclear which direction we will evolve. Teeth are a good record of how the individual evolved to eat, which is indeed in the past. But you have no idea where the evolution will take us, and that’ll take thousands of years, and again individuals do not evolve. So yes, teeth still matter. I’m glad you have good teeth, but I’ll remind you that anecdotes are not data.
  - gnosis89 8y ago
    Now you're hopping from evolution to genetic features as though they are the same thing. I never mentioned that I have good teeth or that I was vegetarian, nor is it anecdotal that vegetarians have better dental hygiene. I highly doubt our teeth will change at all because people don't die from lack of a certain tooth. Teeth don't matter when you can literally have all fake teeth and get by eating just fine. In fact, we often remove teeth because we have too many. Again, individuals do evolve, which is not the same as suddenly getting new distinct physical features half way through your life, which actually can happen so you're also wrong about that.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      You keep asserting, sans proof, that individuals evolve. Unfortunately for you, the experts disagree[0-2]. Evolution is something that happens to a population, not an individual. > I highly doubt our teeth will change at all because people don't die from lack of a certain tooth. Yes, I made this point. But that was not true when humans evolved into our current form, right around when the rest of us evolved. Until relatively recently, humans did die from dental cavities, and we haven't changed significantly in 1,000 years, so the point stands. > nor is it anecdotal that vegetarians have better dental hygiene. Which would be a good point if I was trying to claim that. I said they had worse health, which is diet and behavior related. The big one for me is K2. There is only one vegan source of K2, natto, all other sources are either animal or meat based. K2 is critical for a lot of things, including tooth cells. Vegans and vegetarians are showing higher rates of tooth decay (not cavities, I misread) than the rest of the population[3]. Doesn't really matter how much they're brushing, it's diet driven. > Again, individuals do evolve [Citation needed] > which is not the same as suddenly getting new distinct physical features half way through your life You're right that meaningful mutations might be at the protein level, but you're not going to start synthesizing brand new proteins either. 0. http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec09.html http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/l... 1. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a4 https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq... 2. https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53371/what-is-meant-by-individuals-do-not-evolve-populations-do https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/53371/what-is-me... 3. https://www.deltadentalwa.com/blog/entry/2018/07/vegan-diet-dental-health https://www.deltadentalwa.com/blog/entry/2018/07/vegan-diet-...