4 ms·

You’re ignoring what I’m saying. I also don’t believe that vegans are healthy. Sure, they don’t starve (omnivores, after all). But I want to see their regular

You’re ignoring what I’m saying. I also don’t believe that vegans are healthy. Sure, they don’t starve (omnivores, after all). But I want to see their regular glucose levels and their mortality rates. The way I eat (omnivore) is ancient, veganism is brand new.

simoom22 8y ago
Humans are primates, and most primates of the world are vegan, or nearly so, including our closest relatives. That's not something new.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Our two closest primate relatives are not vegan, they’re omnivores. Bonobos and chimpanzees hunt smaller mammals.
  - gnosis89 8y ago
    Most of their diet is fruit/leaves. The rest is squirrels. I don't see many people eating squirrels, but I see a lot of squirrels.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      Spend more times in the sticks. I’ve heard that squirrel is delicious.
DennisP 8y ago
I'm not ignoring, I'm disagreeing. My brother is a military officer, gets an annual physical, and his numbers are consistently great. A quick google finds studies supporting the idea that his results are typical. Here's one from 2016, which finds that more plant protein correlates with lower mortality, and more animal protein with higher mortality: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families... But as I said above, from an environmental perspective I don't think widespread vegetarianism is a feasible policy goal, so I'm not trying to tell you what to eat. Getting our meat from vats instead of animals is what I think will save the world.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias There are some studies that are coming out that undermine your idea that vegans are inherently healthier, such as the notice that vegetarians appear to have higher rates of cavities than the population at large. If you ask an anthropologist you'll know this is a big deal, because dental health is a great indicator of overall health. I think all the arguments about the vegetarianism saving the world are bunk, and a convenient reason for us all to not talk about the real issue: oil. My meat comes from animals that graze on grass, as has been the case for millenia. The millions of buffalo that ran around north America a few centuries ago didn't warm the planet with their farts, so why should properly managed grass fed cows do the same? On the other hand, what is new is large scale industrial monoculture agriculture. I am dubious to the concept that we can transition the world over to plant based without planting a lot of soy, something that I think is bad. Side note: we have been managing cattle poorly for years. The proper way is to pen them into relatively tight (but not cramped) portions of the grazing land, and then rotate them from section to section regularly. This mimics the way that herding animals react to predators (cluster up), and gives the grasses time to recover and sequester carbon. It's also far more land efficient than other methods, which is nice. Edit: it looks like 84% of world wide calories come from plants already. Doesn’t seem to be doing anything to stop global warming to me. Maybe it’s the fact that we’re still using fossil fuels instead?
  - DennisP 8y ago
    So that was not the case for my brother; his numbers were significantly worse and he was on medication, before he switched to veganism and greatly improved. In the study I posted, the meat-eaters were in the study too so I don't think that bias exactly applies, though in general dietary studies are always difficult. I think I've read the same books as you, and agree with much of what you say. I would love to see us switch all our cattle over to Allan Savory's methods, and if lab-grown meat works out, maybe some ranchers will survive by providing premium grass-fed. I've also read a stack of the better-known low-carb/paleo books. It just didn't work out for me, my results were horrific. It does seem to work for some people. Regarding cavities, perhaps there are tradeoffs to every diet. In any case, as I said above I don't think vegetarianism is a way to save the world. Lab-grown meat is what will help save the world. Getting off oil will also be a huge help.

simoom22 8y ago

Humans are primates, and most primates of the world are vegan, or nearly so, including our closest relatives. That's not something new.

village-idiot 8y ago
Our two closest primate relatives are not vegan, they’re omnivores. Bonobos and chimpanzees hunt smaller mammals.
- gnosis89 8y ago
  Most of their diet is fruit/leaves. The rest is squirrels. I don't see many people eating squirrels, but I see a lot of squirrels.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Spend more times in the sticks. I’ve heard that squirrel is delicious.

DennisP 8y ago

I'm not ignoring, I'm disagreeing. My brother is a military officer, gets an annual physical, and his numbers are consistently great. A quick google finds studies supporting the idea that his results are typical. Here's one from 2016, which finds that more plant protein correlates with lower mortality, and more animal protein with higher mortality: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families... But as I said above, from an environmental perspective I don't think widespread vegetarianism is a feasible policy goal, so I'm not trying to tell you what to eat. Getting our meat from vats instead of animals is what I think will save the world.

village-idiot 8y ago
Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias There are some studies that are coming out that undermine your idea that vegans are inherently healthier, such as the notice that vegetarians appear to have higher rates of cavities than the population at large. If you ask an anthropologist you'll know this is a big deal, because dental health is a great indicator of overall health. I think all the arguments about the vegetarianism saving the world are bunk, and a convenient reason for us all to not talk about the real issue: oil. My meat comes from animals that graze on grass, as has been the case for millenia. The millions of buffalo that ran around north America a few centuries ago didn't warm the planet with their farts, so why should properly managed grass fed cows do the same? On the other hand, what is new is large scale industrial monoculture agriculture. I am dubious to the concept that we can transition the world over to plant based without planting a lot of soy, something that I think is bad. Side note: we have been managing cattle poorly for years. The proper way is to pen them into relatively tight (but not cramped) portions of the grazing land, and then rotate them from section to section regularly. This mimics the way that herding animals react to predators (cluster up), and gives the grasses time to recover and sequester carbon. It's also far more land efficient than other methods, which is nice. Edit: it looks like 84% of world wide calories come from plants already. Doesn’t seem to be doing anything to stop global warming to me. Maybe it’s the fact that we’re still using fossil fuels instead?
- DennisP 8y ago
  So that was not the case for my brother; his numbers were significantly worse and he was on medication, before he switched to veganism and greatly improved. In the study I posted, the meat-eaters were in the study too so I don't think that bias exactly applies, though in general dietary studies are always difficult. I think I've read the same books as you, and agree with much of what you say. I would love to see us switch all our cattle over to Allan Savory's methods, and if lab-grown meat works out, maybe some ranchers will survive by providing premium grass-fed. I've also read a stack of the better-known low-carb/paleo books. It just didn't work out for me, my results were horrific. It does seem to work for some people. Regarding cavities, perhaps there are tradeoffs to every diet. In any case, as I said above I don't think vegetarianism is a way to save the world. Lab-grown meat is what will help save the world. Getting off oil will also be a huge help.