4 ms·

I've been using Neo in production on GrapheneDB with py2neo and Flask for about a year. Love it. The reason I use a graph is for consistency from my product le

I've been using Neo in production on GrapheneDB with py2neo and Flask for about a year. Love it. The reason I use a graph is for consistency from my product level business logic to my implementation. Basically, to solve my problem, I started with a set of english statements, which yielded a grammar, that I described as "objects and morphisms," (things and relationships) then implemented it in a graph - put a front end on it and built a product. Graphs provide coherence to my problem. Could an RDBMS do this? Yes, but not without a complex intermediate query layer. I think of using a graph as analogous to specifying your problem in terms of a functional language instead of imperatively. The reason to do that is because your product is the result of maintaining consistency of an abstraction, like a DSL or a game, instead of just retrieving stored values, documents and their variations. It's disruptive to a lot of orgs as well, since there is a lot of sunk cost in RDBMS experience, so I think the applications are all net new projects. I don't foresee anyone migrating to one, but I do see a point where majority of new products use one.

chrisweekly 8y ago
Great comment. Along similar lines, I can see GraphQL replacing traditional REST APIs for an increasingly large percent of new projects, and reaching a majority.
- johnymontana 8y ago
  It's interesting that you mention GraphQL. For me, using Neo4j and GraphQL were similar experiences, in that once I started using them they offered a more intuitive and productive approach over the "standard" tools (RDBMS and REST, respectively). Once I learned Cypher and some common graph data modeling constructs, I found I could build more complex applications faster using Neo4j, largely because I found the graph model of my project's domain more intuitive and easier to work with than a relational database model. Similarly, building and using GraphQL APIs has been a huge productivity win once I figured out how to build GraphQL services. Of course, when used together, Neo4j and GraphQL have some great synergies, since it's graph all the way down ;-) It's also worth pointing out that Neo4j has some great GraphQL integrations [1]. [1] https://grandstack.io/docs/neo4j-graphql.html https://grandstack.io/docs/neo4j-graphql.html
  - jcims 8y ago
    Oh man did I struggle with Cypher to start. Conceptually I felt like I understood it but 2/3rds of my queries would go out to lunch and never come back. Lessons learned for me: - start with very small datasets (mine was 10k nodes/40k edges/5 types and that still sent it to the moon in many cases) - get to know the query planner right away Cypher seems to reward a more deliberate and iterative approach to learning it rather than the ol' grip it and rip it. Once I settled down a bit it came together quite nicely.
segmondy 8y ago
You should try Prolog. ;-) Sounds like DCG's (Domain Clause Grammar) will make your life easier too http://www.amzi.com/manuals/amzi/pro/ref_dcg.htm http://www.amzi.com/manuals/amzi/pro/ref_dcg.htm
muloka 8y ago
Amazing, never heard of Graphene before. Just checking them out now. Been dabbling lately in Neo for a couple of projects I'm currently working on and feels like a natural fit. Thank you for your insights.
technige 8y ago
Very glad to hear you've chosen a solid Python stack for your application :) We absolutely wouldn't be where we are without our community. From drivers and tooling to the huge amounts of support and goodwill that we see, it's a wonderful ecosystem to be a part of.

chrisweekly 8y ago

Great comment. Along similar lines, I can see GraphQL replacing traditional REST APIs for an increasingly large percent of new projects, and reaching a majority.

johnymontana 8y ago
It's interesting that you mention GraphQL. For me, using Neo4j and GraphQL were similar experiences, in that once I started using them they offered a more intuitive and productive approach over the "standard" tools (RDBMS and REST, respectively). Once I learned Cypher and some common graph data modeling constructs, I found I could build more complex applications faster using Neo4j, largely because I found the graph model of my project's domain more intuitive and easier to work with than a relational database model. Similarly, building and using GraphQL APIs has been a huge productivity win once I figured out how to build GraphQL services. Of course, when used together, Neo4j and GraphQL have some great synergies, since it's graph all the way down ;-) It's also worth pointing out that Neo4j has some great GraphQL integrations [1]. [1] https://grandstack.io/docs/neo4j-graphql.html https://grandstack.io/docs/neo4j-graphql.html
- jcims 8y ago
  Oh man did I struggle with Cypher to start. Conceptually I felt like I understood it but 2/3rds of my queries would go out to lunch and never come back. Lessons learned for me: - start with very small datasets (mine was 10k nodes/40k edges/5 types and that still sent it to the moon in many cases) - get to know the query planner right away Cypher seems to reward a more deliberate and iterative approach to learning it rather than the ol' grip it and rip it. Once I settled down a bit it came together quite nicely.

segmondy 8y ago

You should try Prolog. ;-) Sounds like DCG's (Domain Clause Grammar) will make your life easier too http://www.amzi.com/manuals/amzi/pro/ref_dcg.htm http://www.amzi.com/manuals/amzi/pro/ref_dcg.htm

muloka 8y ago

Amazing, never heard of Graphene before. Just checking them out now. Been dabbling lately in Neo for a couple of projects I'm currently working on and feels like a natural fit. Thank you for your insights.

technige 8y ago

Very glad to hear you've chosen a solid Python stack for your application :) We absolutely wouldn't be where we are without our community. From drivers and tooling to the huge amounts of support and goodwill that we see, it's a wonderful ecosystem to be a part of.