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I am sensing rudeness from your comment but I don't actually understand why, given that we've said quite similar things about Tolkein. But to clarify the origin

I am sensing rudeness from your comment but I don't actually understand why, given that we've said quite similar things about Tolkein. But to clarify the original intent of "morals" in my comment, I was referring to morals in context of the written universe, not in ours. JY characters regularly confront situations where they are forced to question their own personal code. In a more trivial example, the moral code of a wuxia martial artist is to treat your teacher as a god-like being who is also family. One of his books deals with a student and teacher who are in love with each other and their moral conflictions between doing what is right by their moral code, and what is right by them. JY does not offer a moral lesson here, he simply explores characters in morally complex situations. eta: this is not to say that Tolkein does not do the same. I offered my opinion about which author did it in a way that was more interesting and compelling to me.

Annatar 8y ago
"I was referring to morals in context of the written universe, not in ours. JY characters regularly confront situations where they are forced to question their own personal code. ... ... ... JY does not offer a moral lesson here, he simply explores characters in morally complex situations." Tolkien doesn't do that at all: the depth of his characters is never expounded upon, their decisions and choices flow from their roles (for example Elrond as the healer, or Aragon as the king of men, or Gandalf with the mission to stop Sauron). His characters are aware of the consequences and the effect the Ring will have: not even for Boromir is that a dilemma. That's why my position is that the comparison doesn't even apply because Tolkien's characters don't undergo those dilemmas. For example, the biggest dilemma is Frodo's fear of whether and how he'll be able to complete his task, not whether he should complete it. That is light years removed from character complexity and moral choices. These two authors wrote about completely different things: there isn't any overlap to compare on. As for the rudeness: if based on your comments I think that you should re-read the Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings much more critically because they reduce both works to satisfaction with the story and good being triumphant, and was subtly trying to suggest that, is that rude?
- victoriasun 8y ago
  I think perhaps you misunderstood the context of my original comment. I was responding to two questions: 1) Why is Jin Yong marketed as "The Tolkien of China"? 2) Is Tolkien more creative than JY? Both have subjective answers. In my personal explanation of my answer to number 2, I suggested that the moral complexities that JY characters deal with is an act of creativity on JY's part but cannot be directly compared to the world building on Tolkien's part. That is a personal judgment and a subjective call, and both of our answers to the question of Tolkien's moral complexity is the same. And yes, I would rather you just say that directly than be passive aggressive and rude. I don't proclaim to be a Tolkien expert. I don't proclaim to be a JY expert, just a fan. I have offered my opinion on this forum in answering 2 basic questions; I don't think anything about that opinion or its delivery was one that deserved such rudeness.
  - Annatar 8y ago
    I disagree about being passive-aggressive because I don't think that I was, nor was that my intent. In a world where a subtle, gentle way of saying "please do your homework before stating something like 'we are left with a feeling of general satisfaction'", backed by plenty of examples is experienced as passive-aggressive and rudeness, then I don't understand the world any more. It's certainly not the world I knew and grew up in. Think not less of me for it: not all of us are such good communicators and I'm aware of my limitations, such as they might be. I did it the best way I could think of and that wasn't good enough at all. My remedial action will be to be direct with you, as you've requested, if our paths should cross again.

Annatar 8y ago

"I was referring to morals in context of the written universe, not in ours. JY characters regularly confront situations where they are forced to question their own personal code. ... ... ... JY does not offer a moral lesson here, he simply explores characters in morally complex situations." Tolkien doesn't do that at all: the depth of his characters is never expounded upon, their decisions and choices flow from their roles (for example Elrond as the healer, or Aragon as the king of men, or Gandalf with the mission to stop Sauron). His characters are aware of the consequences and the effect the Ring will have: not even for Boromir is that a dilemma. That's why my position is that the comparison doesn't even apply because Tolkien's characters don't undergo those dilemmas. For example, the biggest dilemma is Frodo's fear of whether and how he'll be able to complete his task, not whether he should complete it. That is light years removed from character complexity and moral choices. These two authors wrote about completely different things: there isn't any overlap to compare on. As for the rudeness: if based on your comments I think that you should re-read the Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings much more critically because they reduce both works to satisfaction with the story and good being triumphant, and was subtly trying to suggest that, is that rude?

victoriasun 8y ago
I think perhaps you misunderstood the context of my original comment. I was responding to two questions: 1) Why is Jin Yong marketed as "The Tolkien of China"? 2) Is Tolkien more creative than JY? Both have subjective answers. In my personal explanation of my answer to number 2, I suggested that the moral complexities that JY characters deal with is an act of creativity on JY's part but cannot be directly compared to the world building on Tolkien's part. That is a personal judgment and a subjective call, and both of our answers to the question of Tolkien's moral complexity is the same. And yes, I would rather you just say that directly than be passive aggressive and rude. I don't proclaim to be a Tolkien expert. I don't proclaim to be a JY expert, just a fan. I have offered my opinion on this forum in answering 2 basic questions; I don't think anything about that opinion or its delivery was one that deserved such rudeness.
- Annatar 8y ago
  I disagree about being passive-aggressive because I don't think that I was, nor was that my intent. In a world where a subtle, gentle way of saying "please do your homework before stating something like 'we are left with a feeling of general satisfaction'", backed by plenty of examples is experienced as passive-aggressive and rudeness, then I don't understand the world any more. It's certainly not the world I knew and grew up in. Think not less of me for it: not all of us are such good communicators and I'm aware of my limitations, such as they might be. I did it the best way I could think of and that wasn't good enough at all. My remedial action will be to be direct with you, as you've requested, if our paths should cross again.