4 ms·

I agree. It is a high anxiety-producing situation, even though I'm doing nothing wrong. I travel yearly to other countries and I still get very stressed.

chrisseaton 8y ago
I would imagine crosssing a border is the only interaction most people ever have with law enforcement.
- dagw 8y ago
  Or at least the only adversarial interaction.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    I don't think I've ever spoken to an on-duty police officer in my life.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Crossing the border isn't adversarial. A speeding ticket isn't adversarial (usually, unless you make it that way). They're just routine transactions. A "driving while X", a terry stop or other fishing expedition type stop is adversarial. Occasionally we have comment threads on HN that remind me how far removed a lot people here are from these issues and it does not make me confident that there will be improvement in my lifetime. This comment thread is one of them. I don't support this AI thing at all but as far as problems with law enforcement go border agent's demeanor should be really far down the priority list. I'm all for things that put the issue on people's radar and I don't wanna come off as saying "but X is worse so we shouldn't care about Y" but this seems like a first world problem.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      > A speeding ticket isn't adversarial (usually, unless you make it that way). They're just routine transactions. Thinking about being stopped by the police for speeding as being something routine is insane. You should't be routinely doing something dangerous and illegal (speeding is illegal per se in most states.)
      - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        Minor motor vehicle infractions are routine transaction from the point of view of the cop just like crossing the border isn't routine for most people but the customs agent sees hundred or thousands every day. >You should't be routinely doing something dangerous and illegal (speeding is illegal per se in most states.) You should read up on what the academics and engineers have to say about speed limits instead of pearl clutching. Unrealistically low speed limits are worse than no speed limits, often times there's politics and road metric gaming involved in setting a speed limit so you often wind up with speed limits that are unreasonably low. You can't just pick a limit and expect people to follow it if it's unreasonably low.
        chrisseaton 8y ago
        > You can't just pick a limit and expect people to follow it if it's unreasonably low. I don't see why not - I manage it fine, have never had a speeding ticket, and don't see why other people can't do the same.
        logfromblammo 8y ago
        Four lane divided, limited-access highway. Lanes are 12' wide. Visibility is unlimited. Road is straight as an arrow out to the horizon. Terrain is flat. Diffuse daylight. No appreciable traffic. Without being told the speed limit, how fast do you go? Now that you're going that fast, you enter a section of highway that has been annexed by a nearby incorporated town, its speed limit in town lowered to 35 mph, and its only cop sitting out on the highway, clocking cars and looking for speeders to cite for "70/35". Without the threat of cops, most drivers generally drive at the subjective and situationally variable speed described by Adams in HHGttG as "R1", which is the maximum reasonable and prudent speed for the ambient conditions. When lanes narrow, R1 drops. When fog blankets the road, R1 drops. When traffic gets congested, R1 drops. Everyone already has ample incentives to drive at a safe speed to protect their affordable insurance premiums, their expensive vehicles, and their priceless lives. In general, the locales that recognize this set their posted speed limits to the 85th percentile of driver speeds in normal conditions. They only ticket people that are clearly beyond the community norms for R1. The locales that want ticket revenue set the speed limits to R0.9 or less, so that everyone is occasionally subject to citations if they aren't extremely vigilant about avoiding the enforcement. The latter is why not. When there is profit in catching law-breakers, the law will be adjusted to criminalize otherwise normal behaviors.
    - outworlder 8y ago
      > Crossing the border isn't adversarial Without naming countries, you are handled like a criminal very often. Your definition of 'not adversarial' is intriguing. > as far as problems with law enforcement go border agent's demeanor should be really far down the priority list Oh really? When border agents can seriously screw up one's life (for instance, by placing a decade ban, or detaining them, and worse) with no oversight, I'd say it's a pretty big problem. EDIT: > They're just routine transactions. People have been killed in 'routine enforcement stops'. Agent demeanor is a big deal.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

chrisseaton 8y ago

I would imagine crosssing a border is the only interaction most people ever have with law enforcement.

dagw 8y ago
Or at least the only adversarial interaction.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  I don't think I've ever spoken to an on-duty police officer in my life.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Crossing the border isn't adversarial. A speeding ticket isn't adversarial (usually, unless you make it that way). They're just routine transactions. A "driving while X", a terry stop or other fishing expedition type stop is adversarial. Occasionally we have comment threads on HN that remind me how far removed a lot people here are from these issues and it does not make me confident that there will be improvement in my lifetime. This comment thread is one of them. I don't support this AI thing at all but as far as problems with law enforcement go border agent's demeanor should be really far down the priority list. I'm all for things that put the issue on people's radar and I don't wanna come off as saying "but X is worse so we shouldn't care about Y" but this seems like a first world problem.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > A speeding ticket isn't adversarial (usually, unless you make it that way). They're just routine transactions. Thinking about being stopped by the police for speeding as being something routine is insane. You should't be routinely doing something dangerous and illegal (speeding is illegal per se in most states.)
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Minor motor vehicle infractions are routine transaction from the point of view of the cop just like crossing the border isn't routine for most people but the customs agent sees hundred or thousands every day. >You should't be routinely doing something dangerous and illegal (speeding is illegal per se in most states.) You should read up on what the academics and engineers have to say about speed limits instead of pearl clutching. Unrealistically low speed limits are worse than no speed limits, often times there's politics and road metric gaming involved in setting a speed limit so you often wind up with speed limits that are unreasonably low. You can't just pick a limit and expect people to follow it if it's unreasonably low.
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        > You can't just pick a limit and expect people to follow it if it's unreasonably low. I don't see why not - I manage it fine, have never had a speeding ticket, and don't see why other people can't do the same.
        logfromblammo 8y ago
        Four lane divided, limited-access highway. Lanes are 12' wide. Visibility is unlimited. Road is straight as an arrow out to the horizon. Terrain is flat. Diffuse daylight. No appreciable traffic. Without being told the speed limit, how fast do you go? Now that you're going that fast, you enter a section of highway that has been annexed by a nearby incorporated town, its speed limit in town lowered to 35 mph, and its only cop sitting out on the highway, clocking cars and looking for speeders to cite for "70/35". Without the threat of cops, most drivers generally drive at the subjective and situationally variable speed described by Adams in HHGttG as "R1", which is the maximum reasonable and prudent speed for the ambient conditions. When lanes narrow, R1 drops. When fog blankets the road, R1 drops. When traffic gets congested, R1 drops. Everyone already has ample incentives to drive at a safe speed to protect their affordable insurance premiums, their expensive vehicles, and their priceless lives. In general, the locales that recognize this set their posted speed limits to the 85th percentile of driver speeds in normal conditions. They only ticket people that are clearly beyond the community norms for R1. The locales that want ticket revenue set the speed limits to R0.9 or less, so that everyone is occasionally subject to citations if they aren't extremely vigilant about avoiding the enforcement. The latter is why not. When there is profit in catching law-breakers, the law will be adjusted to criminalize otherwise normal behaviors.
  - outworlder 8y ago
    > Crossing the border isn't adversarial Without naming countries, you are handled like a criminal very often. Your definition of 'not adversarial' is intriguing. > as far as problems with law enforcement go border agent's demeanor should be really far down the priority list Oh really? When border agents can seriously screw up one's life (for instance, by placing a decade ban, or detaining them, and worse) with no oversight, I'd say it's a pretty big problem. EDIT: > They're just routine transactions. People have been killed in 'routine enforcement stops'. Agent demeanor is a big deal.
deleted 8y ago
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