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The article keeps talking about "Danish" this and that. The only one of the so called Danish physicists quoted in the article is Andrew Jackson who is American

by flexie 8y ago

The article keeps talking about "Danish" this and that. The only one of the so called Danish physicists quoted in the article is Andrew Jackson who is American. I believe this is the paper it all relates to: https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.04191 https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.04191 None of the authors are Danish, but most are related to the Niels Bohr Institute. Andrew Jackson probably has a lot of Danish colleagues at the Niels Bohr Institute, which of course is in Copenhagen, and many of them might agree with him and some might have been involved in the study. He probably also lived in Denmark for many years and he might even have gotten Danish citizenship, family and he might even speak Danish. The same might apply to some of the other authors. But you wouldn't call Einstein a Swiss, Austro-Hungarian or American physicist although he did most of his important work in those countries (and actually obtained both Austrian and American citizenship), would you? I am aware of the Copenhagen school quantum physics/ the Copenhagen interpretation, and that the article might try to play on that old thing in the hopes that we might see a new Danish school in physics. But why?

wheels 8y ago
You could call Einstein one of those labels and it wouldn't be much odder than calling him German. He was actually born in The Kingdom of Würtemburg, at the beginning of the "German Empire" (a federation of kingdoms whose borders were very different from today's Germany). And even then, what we now call "Germany" is something that only came into existence in the 1990s. A lot of people try to project nation-states backwards through history, but they're a relatively recent notion, and their current configuration even more so. Specifically, he lived in the German speaking part of two of those countries, and it doesn't make sense to refer to German-speaking regions of the late 1800s and early 1900s by 21st century labels.
- testrun 8y ago
  Not quite, what we call now Germany came in existence in 1871. Since then Germany lost a lot of territory. Einstein was born in 1879.
mikekchar 8y ago
I have no idea with what nationality Andrew Jackson identifies with, but as an immigrant myself, your comment puts my back up a bit. How much of one's life must be spent in a country before being considered "from" that country in your philosophy? If you are born in one country does it indelibly mark you for life? Do you have to be raised in a country in order to identify with it? If you move somewhere, live many years there, have a family there, speak the language, follow the customs, have citizenship there and have no intention of every living anywhere else are you still cursed with your original nationality? Do you feel that such people who have not spent the entirety of their life in a single location need some sort of asterisk next to their nationality? Not a "real" Danish person. Can never become one. I can understand your question: are they really Danish physicists, or simply physicists working in Denmark. Personally, I don't care but I suppose if you are thinking that Denmark is claiming something they don't deserve, then I suppose it's not a crazy question. However, I hope you can see that the way you put it could be pretty insulting to someone who literally is Danish, but just happens not to be born there.
- flexie 8y ago
  I think you misread my comment. I have nothing against immigrants. I am an immigrant as well, and I have lived in 4 different countries. I also think it's a bit hard to say that he is "cursed" with his original nationality or "marked" for life. I don't know him but from his own page on the Niels Bohr Institute, he sure doesn't seem embarrassed or sad with his American background: http://nbia.nbi.ku.dk/members/jackson/ http://nbia.nbi.ku.dk/members/jackson/ And why should he be. I was simply asking why they call it the "Danish" 5 times in the article. I believe the answer is that they really want to stir up the idea of another Danish/Copenhagen school as opposed to the mainstream views in physics. That's it. And I doubt this little debacle will ever evolve into anything as important as the original Copenhagen school. Now, I don't think it necessarily matters what nationality we identify with. To many people, nationality is a legal concept, not a matter of feelings. That view on nationality has the advantage of being clear. It's hard to know what people identify with. I am not even sure what I identify with anymore. A bit of different countries, I guess. Maybe none. As a legal concept, however, nationality becomes something that is objectively right or wrong. As to who deserves the credit or blame (Denmark or the US), I have no idea. A huge part of what makes a great scientist is his upbringing, primary and secondary education. In this case, they guy got his entire formal education in the US, and spent several decades there before going to Denmark. Maybe it's not nation states that deserve credit. Did Argentina make Messi or did Spain? Or was is just genes and the fact that his family of football players? I don't know...
silvestrov 8y ago
He has been in Denmark for the past 23 years according to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Jackson https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Jackson How many years does someone need to live in USA before you will call them American?
- bloak 8y ago
  Age minus 12 years, perhaps? To my mind, someone who spent the first 16 years of their life in Ruritania, say, will remain a Ruritanian forever, though obviously there are contexts in which "Elbonian" would be taken to mean a "person travelling with an Elbonian passport" rather than someone who was brought up in Elbonia.
- joelbluminator 8y ago
  I think from the moment you become a citizen you may call yourself citizen of X, or American for example. All other forumals are racist bullshit...but hell, we are living in racist times.

by flexie 8y ago

wheels 8y ago

You could call Einstein one of those labels and it wouldn't be much odder than calling him German. He was actually born in The Kingdom of Würtemburg, at the beginning of the "German Empire" (a federation of kingdoms whose borders were very different from today's Germany). And even then, what we now call "Germany" is something that only came into existence in the 1990s. A lot of people try to project nation-states backwards through history, but they're a relatively recent notion, and their current configuration even more so. Specifically, he lived in the German speaking part of two of those countries, and it doesn't make sense to refer to German-speaking regions of the late 1800s and early 1900s by 21st century labels.

testrun 8y ago
Not quite, what we call now Germany came in existence in 1871. Since then Germany lost a lot of territory. Einstein was born in 1879.

mikekchar 8y ago

I have no idea with what nationality Andrew Jackson identifies with, but as an immigrant myself, your comment puts my back up a bit. How much of one's life must be spent in a country before being considered "from" that country in your philosophy? If you are born in one country does it indelibly mark you for life? Do you have to be raised in a country in order to identify with it? If you move somewhere, live many years there, have a family there, speak the language, follow the customs, have citizenship there and have no intention of every living anywhere else are you still cursed with your original nationality? Do you feel that such people who have not spent the entirety of their life in a single location need some sort of asterisk next to their nationality? Not a "real" Danish person. Can never become one. I can understand your question: are they really Danish physicists, or simply physicists working in Denmark. Personally, I don't care but I suppose if you are thinking that Denmark is claiming something they don't deserve, then I suppose it's not a crazy question. However, I hope you can see that the way you put it could be pretty insulting to someone who literally is Danish, but just happens not to be born there.

flexie 8y ago
I think you misread my comment. I have nothing against immigrants. I am an immigrant as well, and I have lived in 4 different countries. I also think it's a bit hard to say that he is "cursed" with his original nationality or "marked" for life. I don't know him but from his own page on the Niels Bohr Institute, he sure doesn't seem embarrassed or sad with his American background: http://nbia.nbi.ku.dk/members/jackson/ http://nbia.nbi.ku.dk/members/jackson/ And why should he be. I was simply asking why they call it the "Danish" 5 times in the article. I believe the answer is that they really want to stir up the idea of another Danish/Copenhagen school as opposed to the mainstream views in physics. That's it. And I doubt this little debacle will ever evolve into anything as important as the original Copenhagen school. Now, I don't think it necessarily matters what nationality we identify with. To many people, nationality is a legal concept, not a matter of feelings. That view on nationality has the advantage of being clear. It's hard to know what people identify with. I am not even sure what I identify with anymore. A bit of different countries, I guess. Maybe none. As a legal concept, however, nationality becomes something that is objectively right or wrong. As to who deserves the credit or blame (Denmark or the US), I have no idea. A huge part of what makes a great scientist is his upbringing, primary and secondary education. In this case, they guy got his entire formal education in the US, and spent several decades there before going to Denmark. Maybe it's not nation states that deserve credit. Did Argentina make Messi or did Spain? Or was is just genes and the fact that his family of football players? I don't know...

silvestrov 8y ago

He has been in Denmark for the past 23 years according to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Jackson https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Jackson How many years does someone need to live in USA before you will call them American?

bloak 8y ago
Age minus 12 years, perhaps? To my mind, someone who spent the first 16 years of their life in Ruritania, say, will remain a Ruritanian forever, though obviously there are contexts in which "Elbonian" would be taken to mean a "person travelling with an Elbonian passport" rather than someone who was brought up in Elbonia.
joelbluminator 8y ago
I think from the moment you become a citizen you may call yourself citizen of X, or American for example. All other forumals are racist bullshit...but hell, we are living in racist times.