8 ms·

Recent new version of Google Mail flat out doesn't work to any usable standard in Firefox. Ten seconds to open a new 'compose mail' window. A context menu does

Recent new version of Google Mail flat out doesn't work to any usable standard in Firefox. Ten seconds to open a new 'compose mail' window. A context menu does a multi-second HTTP fetch before showing. The previous version worked great. Either the dev team has just given up on quality or they're intentionally goading me into installing Chrome. I'm not going to play that game -- at this point Thunderbird works better.

sjroot 8y ago
What version of Firefox are you running? You are either exaggerating greatly or have other issues with your system. I run the latest stable release of Firefox and the performance of Gmail (particularly the features you mention) is fine. I’d be happy to upload a screen recording to verify.
- tyfon 8y ago
  I have a lot of issues with google apps for business. Sometimes I have to refresh the browser 5-6 times before it will display any email in the primary inbox as well. It's just horrible to use in firefox (in arch linux) and I'm currently looking for a new provider. I might just go all in and use protonmail.
  - omnimus 8y ago
    Protonmail is great but doesnt offer custom domains. If you need domains people mostly mention fastmail but i think there are far better choices like mailbox.org and kolabnow. Mailbox does not look like much from their homepage but it has awesome web client and it extremly reliable private provider thats in bussiness from 90s. I had account there for last 5 years without single problem.
    - protonmail 8y ago
      This is actually not quite right, we have offered custom domain support since 2016 :) https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/custom-domain-support/ https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/custom-domain-...
- OrderlyTiamat 8y ago
  He's not the only one. It's a recurring comment here on hacker news and a problem I've encountered as well, and I'm running the latest stable release.
  - allenz 8y ago
    Same here, I run the latest Firefox on both Windows and Linux. Gmail always takes at least 5 seconds to load.
    - rtpg 8y ago
      I think that Chrome also suffers on this front? But it's better at doing pre-fetching than Firefox is This could really just be that part. I have a hard time imagining explicit sabotage of FF on the gmail frontend. The likeliest explanation is that perf testing and the like only happens in Chrome
    - cpeterso 8y ago
      If you experience a reproducible Firefox performance problem, please consider using the Firefox profiler add-on [1] to record a profile and file a bug with "[qf]" to the whiteboard field. These "[qf]" Firefox performance bugs get reviewed by engineers twice a week. Having a profile makes the bugs much easier to diagnose. [1] https://perf-html.io/docs/#/ https://perf-html.io/docs/#/
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
    The classic question to ask at this point is whether this affects you with a fresh install, or only once you have added all your extensions?
- snazz 8y ago
  I've experienced both very fast and very slow with the new Gmail on the same machine with Firefox on Linux. It's currently faster than Chromium, but maybe tomorrow I'll see ten-second load times. Who knows? For the record, I use uMatrix (and uBlock Origin on easy mode for client-side cleanup), which might be affecting it somewhat.
- afandian 8y ago
  Firefox 63.0. Fibre internet connection. 3.1 GHz Mac, 16 GB RAM. It's tricky to share a screen recording because there's personal information. But I just did two for my own curiosity. From a fresh load, once the "Loading Gmail" screen has gone away, it took 8 seconds and 11 seconds respectively from clicking 'Compose' to having a new window open. Maybe there is variability. There are a million combinations of factors out there. I suppose as an engineer you make the trade off of "do I hope for the best case" vs "do I make something that works for a broad audience". The previous version shows that they can make something that works for my own anecdatapoint if they want to.
- sjapkee 8y ago
  >and the performance of Gmail (particularly the features you mention) is fine >ten seconds to load your inbox >16 GB, i7, SSD, 100 MB/s internet etc. >fine
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    Exactly what I was thinking. How is that even close to fine? WTF?
UnoriginalGuy 8y ago
Firefox on mobile or PC? I haven't experienced that on PC.
asdkhadsj 8y ago
Switching email providers is reasonably painless, fwiw. Set up forwarding, migrate mail when you can. Even better if you set up the majority of your non-security-essential mail to be at your own domain, hosted by Fastmail/etc. Then you can easily change your email provider and your contacts don't even care. I've yet to implement this is in my own life, I just switched to fast mail - so I can't speak from personal experience on the domain portion of it. NOTE: I mentioned non-security-essential email in reference to things like, your bank login or things that could threaten your life essentials. I say this because theoretically (and has happened before), using your own domain increases the attack surface area. My personal plan is to setup custom domain email with Fastmail, but still use the plain me@fastmail.com for my security focused emails. The majority of my email will still be based on my custom domain for easy portability, but I plan to avoid that for my bank, for example... assuming fast mail lets me.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  I switched to Fastmail years ago and it was the best mail-related thing I ever did. I was dreading the migration but it literally took ten minutes, switch DNS records (I have my own domain), run Fastmail's import, done. I still can't believe how fast the UI is. It's by far the fastest web app I've ever used, and the same goes for the service in general. Seriously, just ditch Gmail now, the alternatives are great.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Gmail is more than just mail, it's also integration with other Google services, like calendar. How does Fastmail fare in that regard?
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      I wouldn't know, I have a self-hosted calendar. From the little I've seen, though, the calendar part of Fastmail is very good too.
      - CaptSpify 8y ago
mabbo 8y ago
I have the same problems on Chrome.
- csdreamer7 8y ago
  Ditto, they really need to work on speed on the new gmail.
jazzyjackson 8y ago
I've recently switched to MacOS's built in mail client with IMAP to Gmail, never have to wait for my UI to do something. So count me in as surprised how far gmail has gone downhill.
- bunnycorn 8y ago
  Never liked webmail anyways. Thunderbird might be superior, but I really like that App because it's so light and fast.
- afandian 8y ago
  That's the thing that gets me. So many optimisations have gone into user interface software over the years. And some of the stories of early Apple work, like 'round rects [0]' are truly inspirational. I wrote software using Cocoa about a decade ago (so I may be out of touch), and it was clear how much thought and effort had gone into making the user interface responsive. And it generally shows. The idea that you would just give up on that precedence is baffling. And let's face it, email's important but it's not rocket science. [0] https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_...
your-nanny 8y ago
I've had the same experience. poor performance and display anomolies.
magicalist 8y ago
> A context menu does a multi-second HTTP fetch before showing. Where? The only one I can trigger that does any kind of network is in the inbox, and that's only to get some icons. The text for the options is already loaded.
- afandian 8y ago
  I'm talking about the RSVP box for integrated calendar invites. Not a right-click context menu.
vvanders 8y ago
Yup, that was all the push I needed to migrate all my Google stuff to fastmail.
astura 8y ago
Fwiw, I use Gmail exclusively in Firefox and have no problems at all. (And my machines are fairly dated.)
blux 8y ago
Same issue here. Mails not loading, poor initial load time. That is with zero extensions enabled. I am now using mutt/notmuch/mbsync to prevent having to go through their horrendously slow web interface, and eventually move away from Gmail completely (probably to ProtonMail or fastmail).
laumars 8y ago
I’m a little surprised to read this because Google Mail works fine for me in Firefox (ArchLinux). In fact it’s smoother than some of the Electron-based clients I’ve tried and less painful than trying to get push messages on Thunderbird working (sure, there is always IMAP but that requires regular fetches).
- thatsaguy 8y ago
  FIY, IMAP actually allows "push messages" via the IDLE extension. If you use K9 on android, it's enabled by default. I never used gmail, but I'd be surprised if the gmail imap server didn't support it (and I would dismiss gmail entirely if it didn't).
  - laumars 8y ago
    Is this a new thing? I don't recall seeing an option for that in Thunderbird (desktop version by the way; not the mobile / Android version) the last time I looked (~9 months ago).
    - thatsaguy 8y ago
      IDLE is an old extension. Unfortunately Thunderbird is a crappy client.
      - laumars 8y ago
        What would you recommend then? I don't use Thunderbird myself - was just following the discussion on from the OP who did use it. However I've yet to find a client I like so genuinely interested in any suggestions you might have.
        thatsaguy 8y ago
        I'm currently using mutt with "getmail" (which does support IDLE), which I can recommend -- it's an excellent client, but only if you're fine with tweaking. I used TB until two years ago, but I gave up with it's unfixed bugs and quirks. I do prefer graphical clients, but not if they are clunky or buggy. I used Silpheed and Claws for years, but Silpheed locks (or used to lock) the UI during fetch (unacceptable IMHO) while Claws has some critical bugs in the filter/rule logic that made me lose mail in several occasions by refiling into the wrong folder while processing a lot of messages. If you arent't a heavy filter user you might be fine with it though, I think Claws gets a lot of things right. KMail wasn't bad when I used it, but it was too long ago to make an honest comment today.

sjroot 8y ago

What version of Firefox are you running? You are either exaggerating greatly or have other issues with your system. I run the latest stable release of Firefox and the performance of Gmail (particularly the features you mention) is fine. I’d be happy to upload a screen recording to verify.

tyfon 8y ago
I have a lot of issues with google apps for business. Sometimes I have to refresh the browser 5-6 times before it will display any email in the primary inbox as well. It's just horrible to use in firefox (in arch linux) and I'm currently looking for a new provider. I might just go all in and use protonmail.
- omnimus 8y ago
  Protonmail is great but doesnt offer custom domains. If you need domains people mostly mention fastmail but i think there are far better choices like mailbox.org and kolabnow. Mailbox does not look like much from their homepage but it has awesome web client and it extremly reliable private provider thats in bussiness from 90s. I had account there for last 5 years without single problem.
  - protonmail 8y ago
    This is actually not quite right, we have offered custom domain support since 2016 :) https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/custom-domain-support/ https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/custom-domain-...
OrderlyTiamat 8y ago
He's not the only one. It's a recurring comment here on hacker news and a problem I've encountered as well, and I'm running the latest stable release.
- allenz 8y ago
  Same here, I run the latest Firefox on both Windows and Linux. Gmail always takes at least 5 seconds to load.
  - rtpg 8y ago
    I think that Chrome also suffers on this front? But it's better at doing pre-fetching than Firefox is This could really just be that part. I have a hard time imagining explicit sabotage of FF on the gmail frontend. The likeliest explanation is that perf testing and the like only happens in Chrome
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    If you experience a reproducible Firefox performance problem, please consider using the Firefox profiler add-on [1] to record a profile and file a bug with "[qf]" to the whiteboard field. These "[qf]" Firefox performance bugs get reviewed by engineers twice a week. Having a profile makes the bugs much easier to diagnose. [1] https://perf-html.io/docs/#/ https://perf-html.io/docs/#/
- asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
  The classic question to ask at this point is whether this affects you with a fresh install, or only once you have added all your extensions?
snazz 8y ago
I've experienced both very fast and very slow with the new Gmail on the same machine with Firefox on Linux. It's currently faster than Chromium, but maybe tomorrow I'll see ten-second load times. Who knows? For the record, I use uMatrix (and uBlock Origin on easy mode for client-side cleanup), which might be affecting it somewhat.
afandian 8y ago
Firefox 63.0. Fibre internet connection. 3.1 GHz Mac, 16 GB RAM. It's tricky to share a screen recording because there's personal information. But I just did two for my own curiosity. From a fresh load, once the "Loading Gmail" screen has gone away, it took 8 seconds and 11 seconds respectively from clicking 'Compose' to having a new window open. Maybe there is variability. There are a million combinations of factors out there. I suppose as an engineer you make the trade off of "do I hope for the best case" vs "do I make something that works for a broad audience". The previous version shows that they can make something that works for my own anecdatapoint if they want to.
sjapkee 8y ago
>and the performance of Gmail (particularly the features you mention) is fine >ten seconds to load your inbox >16 GB, i7, SSD, 100 MB/s internet etc. >fine
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  Exactly what I was thinking. How is that even close to fine? WTF?

UnoriginalGuy 8y ago

Firefox on mobile or PC? I haven't experienced that on PC.

asdkhadsj 8y ago

Switching email providers is reasonably painless, fwiw. Set up forwarding, migrate mail when you can. Even better if you set up the majority of your non-security-essential mail to be at your own domain, hosted by Fastmail/etc. Then you can easily change your email provider and your contacts don't even care. I've yet to implement this is in my own life, I just switched to fast mail - so I can't speak from personal experience on the domain portion of it. NOTE: I mentioned non-security-essential email in reference to things like, your bank login or things that could threaten your life essentials. I say this because theoretically (and has happened before), using your own domain increases the attack surface area. My personal plan is to setup custom domain email with Fastmail, but still use the plain me@fastmail.com for my security focused emails. The majority of my email will still be based on my custom domain for easy portability, but I plan to avoid that for my bank, for example... assuming fast mail lets me.

StavrosK 8y ago
I switched to Fastmail years ago and it was the best mail-related thing I ever did. I was dreading the migration but it literally took ten minutes, switch DNS records (I have my own domain), run Fastmail's import, done. I still can't believe how fast the UI is. It's by far the fastest web app I've ever used, and the same goes for the service in general. Seriously, just ditch Gmail now, the alternatives are great.
- int_19h 8y ago
  Gmail is more than just mail, it's also integration with other Google services, like calendar. How does Fastmail fare in that regard?
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    I wouldn't know, I have a self-hosted calendar. From the little I've seen, though, the calendar part of Fastmail is very good too.
    - CaptSpify 8y ago

mabbo 8y ago

I have the same problems on Chrome.

csdreamer7 8y ago
Ditto, they really need to work on speed on the new gmail.

jazzyjackson 8y ago

I've recently switched to MacOS's built in mail client with IMAP to Gmail, never have to wait for my UI to do something. So count me in as surprised how far gmail has gone downhill.

bunnycorn 8y ago
Never liked webmail anyways. Thunderbird might be superior, but I really like that App because it's so light and fast.
afandian 8y ago
That's the thing that gets me. So many optimisations have gone into user interface software over the years. And some of the stories of early Apple work, like 'round rects [0]' are truly inspirational. I wrote software using Cocoa about a decade ago (so I may be out of touch), and it was clear how much thought and effort had gone into making the user interface responsive. And it generally shows. The idea that you would just give up on that precedence is baffling. And let's face it, email's important but it's not rocket science. [0] https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_...

your-nanny 8y ago

I've had the same experience. poor performance and display anomolies.

magicalist 8y ago

> A context menu does a multi-second HTTP fetch before showing. Where? The only one I can trigger that does any kind of network is in the inbox, and that's only to get some icons. The text for the options is already loaded.

afandian 8y ago
I'm talking about the RSVP box for integrated calendar invites. Not a right-click context menu.

vvanders 8y ago

Yup, that was all the push I needed to migrate all my Google stuff to fastmail.

astura 8y ago

Fwiw, I use Gmail exclusively in Firefox and have no problems at all. (And my machines are fairly dated.)

blux 8y ago

Same issue here. Mails not loading, poor initial load time. That is with zero extensions enabled. I am now using mutt/notmuch/mbsync to prevent having to go through their horrendously slow web interface, and eventually move away from Gmail completely (probably to ProtonMail or fastmail).

laumars 8y ago

I’m a little surprised to read this because Google Mail works fine for me in Firefox (ArchLinux). In fact it’s smoother than some of the Electron-based clients I’ve tried and less painful than trying to get push messages on Thunderbird working (sure, there is always IMAP but that requires regular fetches).

thatsaguy 8y ago
FIY, IMAP actually allows "push messages" via the IDLE extension. If you use K9 on android, it's enabled by default. I never used gmail, but I'd be surprised if the gmail imap server didn't support it (and I would dismiss gmail entirely if it didn't).
- laumars 8y ago
  Is this a new thing? I don't recall seeing an option for that in Thunderbird (desktop version by the way; not the mobile / Android version) the last time I looked (~9 months ago).
  - thatsaguy 8y ago
    IDLE is an old extension. Unfortunately Thunderbird is a crappy client.
    - laumars 8y ago
      What would you recommend then? I don't use Thunderbird myself - was just following the discussion on from the OP who did use it. However I've yet to find a client I like so genuinely interested in any suggestions you might have.
      - thatsaguy 8y ago
        I'm currently using mutt with "getmail" (which does support IDLE), which I can recommend -- it's an excellent client, but only if you're fine with tweaking. I used TB until two years ago, but I gave up with it's unfixed bugs and quirks. I do prefer graphical clients, but not if they are clunky or buggy. I used Silpheed and Claws for years, but Silpheed locks (or used to lock) the UI during fetch (unacceptable IMHO) while Claws has some critical bugs in the filter/rule logic that made me lose mail in several occasions by refiling into the wrong folder while processing a lot of messages. If you arent't a heavy filter user you might be fine with it though, I think Claws gets a lot of things right. KMail wasn't bad when I used it, but it was too long ago to make an honest comment today.