4 ms·

I get where they are coming from. Windows is far from the top OS used by D programers, it only effects people who use anti-virus, and I'm betting you can whitel

I get where they are coming from. Windows is far from the top OS used by D programers, it only effects people who use anti-virus, and I'm betting you can whitelist it or otherwise bypass it. All of those things may seem like sizable hurdles but we are talking about programmers here, I think they can handle it. I know back when I used Windows I would get false positives for all kinds of things because I was on the bleeding edge or always trying new stuff that they hadn't seen or looked malicious (but wasn't). If you are going to run "anti-virus" as a developer you need to know what side-effects you might run into (the same way I know that PrivacyBadger and uMatrix in Chrome can cause issues, I don't go running to the website that is broken just because my extension broke it).

tjoff 8y ago
Anti-virus is bundled with windows. Everyone will have it. I wouldn't know how easy it would be to bypass. And in a corporate environment you would not be able to.
- joshstrange 8y ago
  > Anti-virus is bundled with windows. Everyone will have it. Someone interested in programming in D should be able to disable it and programmers != Everyone > I wouldn't know how easy it would be to bypass. And in a corporate environment you would not be able to. I feel like this knowledge is just a google search away and for corporate... If you computers are so locked down that you can't disable the anti-virus they are probably locked down so that you can't install new programs in general. I, for one, would never choose to work for a company that locked down and in that case I feel like you just need to talk to IT to ask them to whitelist it. All of that said I feel like there is a huge disconnect between the points you are making and the actual population that is trying to use D. Look, I have no clue on the actual install base/user base of D lang but I can't imagine we are talking a "real" number of people having this issue. D doesn't even rank on any of the "Top languages of 2018" lists I found online (that isn't a knock on D, it's just facts) so that coupled with the fact that the vast majority of D developers seem to use non-Windows OS's make this all seem like a lot to do about nothing.
  - tatersolid 8y ago
    > I, for one, would never choose to work for a company that locked down Good luck finding a job in banking, government, healthcare, defense, retail, insurance, securities, food, pharmaceutical, or pretty much anything other than social media. All of these industries are basically forced into “whitelisted software only” by some regulation or another.
    - Brian_K_White 8y ago
      I for one, never did choose to work for such a company, and yet now I do anyway because my chosen small company was sold to a huge one, after I am 19 years in. It's almost like that was easier to say than to do.
      - joshstrange 8y ago
        I'd like to clarify and point out I used the word "choose" very much so on purpose. There are a number of things that would effectively remove this choice from me. If tomorrow I was laid off and I couldn't find anything within a a couple of weeks I'd work at McDonalds to get by but for as long as I have the choice I'm not interested in locked down computers or locked down internet where I work. If I were in your position I'd have to weigh the pros and cons before deciding to look for a new job. You obviously decided the pros outweighed the cons and I don't hold it against you or anyone else.
    - joshstrange 8y ago
      I think the size of the company determines this far more than the industry does. I prefer to work for smaller-sized companies or ones that don't treat their employees like children with locked down computers and access. I work in the corrections industry (think ankle bracelet monitoring) and there are no such regulations. In fact I use my personal computer for all my work people it blows the standard equipment out of the water. Even so all our devs have full root on their boxes and install whatever they want. Also I find it very hard to believe that everyone working at FAANG companies is using a locked down computer.
larkeith 8y ago
> I'm betting you can whitelist it or otherwise bypass it That you can easily bypass it is irrelevant - it's a bad sign to me, as a potential user, when the installer is flagged as a virus, and a far worse one when the D team seems utterly apathetic about fixing it. I see no evidence in the thread whether it's a false positive or not (though plenty of unbacked claims and some ad hominem: "you are the one using the snake oil software"), only developers asking the users to blindly report it to their AV vendor. I also did not see any response to Mike Franklin's comment: "It's not the compiler that is reporting the virus, it's the installer. What utility are we using the generate the installer executable?" This throws up an entire forest of red flags to me as a developer - I'll stick to languages where the contributors care enough about the language to report a false positive themselves.
- platinumrad 8y ago
  Why is it on D's developers to fix a false positive in someone else's software? They redirected the reporter to the proper venue. I don't see what else they should be doing.
  - criley2 8y ago
    That's like asking why you should correct false data on your personal credit report. It's someone else's computer database, not yours! (Or maybe a better analogy would be "Why should I ask Google to stop marking my legit domain as spam and hiding emails to my users? It's their system!") Software developers have to lobby on their own behalf so their software fits into larger ecosystems seamlessly. Or deal with angry users.
    - CamperBob2 8y ago
      Another analogy: "This is why Red Hat got $34 billion for some stuff that a bunch of other people, not unlike the D compiler authors, wrote for free." Support is important.
    - windwake12 8y ago
      Angry users is not something you can opt out of. Malware reports are just another fact of life for many open source projects. I think the putty link (was posted elsewhere) is an awesome summary of the impossible fight you're asking developers off taking on. Also, that's an insane comparison between AV reports and personal credit reports.

tjoff 8y ago

Anti-virus is bundled with windows. Everyone will have it. I wouldn't know how easy it would be to bypass. And in a corporate environment you would not be able to.

joshstrange 8y ago
> Anti-virus is bundled with windows. Everyone will have it. Someone interested in programming in D should be able to disable it and programmers != Everyone > I wouldn't know how easy it would be to bypass. And in a corporate environment you would not be able to. I feel like this knowledge is just a google search away and for corporate... If you computers are so locked down that you can't disable the anti-virus they are probably locked down so that you can't install new programs in general. I, for one, would never choose to work for a company that locked down and in that case I feel like you just need to talk to IT to ask them to whitelist it. All of that said I feel like there is a huge disconnect between the points you are making and the actual population that is trying to use D. Look, I have no clue on the actual install base/user base of D lang but I can't imagine we are talking a "real" number of people having this issue. D doesn't even rank on any of the "Top languages of 2018" lists I found online (that isn't a knock on D, it's just facts) so that coupled with the fact that the vast majority of D developers seem to use non-Windows OS's make this all seem like a lot to do about nothing.
- tatersolid 8y ago
  > I, for one, would never choose to work for a company that locked down Good luck finding a job in banking, government, healthcare, defense, retail, insurance, securities, food, pharmaceutical, or pretty much anything other than social media. All of these industries are basically forced into “whitelisted software only” by some regulation or another.
  - Brian_K_White 8y ago
    I for one, never did choose to work for such a company, and yet now I do anyway because my chosen small company was sold to a huge one, after I am 19 years in. It's almost like that was easier to say than to do.
    - joshstrange 8y ago
      I'd like to clarify and point out I used the word "choose" very much so on purpose. There are a number of things that would effectively remove this choice from me. If tomorrow I was laid off and I couldn't find anything within a a couple of weeks I'd work at McDonalds to get by but for as long as I have the choice I'm not interested in locked down computers or locked down internet where I work. If I were in your position I'd have to weigh the pros and cons before deciding to look for a new job. You obviously decided the pros outweighed the cons and I don't hold it against you or anyone else.
  - joshstrange 8y ago
    I think the size of the company determines this far more than the industry does. I prefer to work for smaller-sized companies or ones that don't treat their employees like children with locked down computers and access. I work in the corrections industry (think ankle bracelet monitoring) and there are no such regulations. In fact I use my personal computer for all my work people it blows the standard equipment out of the water. Even so all our devs have full root on their boxes and install whatever they want. Also I find it very hard to believe that everyone working at FAANG companies is using a locked down computer.

larkeith 8y ago

> I'm betting you can whitelist it or otherwise bypass it That you can easily bypass it is irrelevant - it's a bad sign to me, as a potential user, when the installer is flagged as a virus, and a far worse one when the D team seems utterly apathetic about fixing it. I see no evidence in the thread whether it's a false positive or not (though plenty of unbacked claims and some ad hominem: "you are the one using the snake oil software"), only developers asking the users to blindly report it to their AV vendor. I also did not see any response to Mike Franklin's comment: "It's not the compiler that is reporting the virus, it's the installer. What utility are we using the generate the installer executable?" This throws up an entire forest of red flags to me as a developer - I'll stick to languages where the contributors care enough about the language to report a false positive themselves.

platinumrad 8y ago
Why is it on D's developers to fix a false positive in someone else's software? They redirected the reporter to the proper venue. I don't see what else they should be doing.
- criley2 8y ago
  That's like asking why you should correct false data on your personal credit report. It's someone else's computer database, not yours! (Or maybe a better analogy would be "Why should I ask Google to stop marking my legit domain as spam and hiding emails to my users? It's their system!") Software developers have to lobby on their own behalf so their software fits into larger ecosystems seamlessly. Or deal with angry users.
  - CamperBob2 8y ago
    Another analogy: "This is why Red Hat got $34 billion for some stuff that a bunch of other people, not unlike the D compiler authors, wrote for free." Support is important.
  - windwake12 8y ago
    Angry users is not something you can opt out of. Malware reports are just another fact of life for many open source projects. I think the putty link (was posted elsewhere) is an awesome summary of the impossible fight you're asking developers off taking on. Also, that's an insane comparison between AV reports and personal credit reports.