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>As far as $200K being high adjusted for COLA, in the burbs where I live. $330K gets you a house - brand new build in a top rated school system with five bedroo

>As far as $200K being high adjusted for COLA, in the burbs where I live. $330K gets you a house - brand new build in a top rated school system with five bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 3000 square feet with a yard, two car garage, and a separate nice size office. What does that get you in SV? Nobody actually plans on retiring in SF. When I'm done working here for 10 or 15 years I'll have enough to move and own a mansion in whatever town you live in and retire. After 2 years of working I already have $170k in savings.

scarface74 8y ago
Speaking in general, not about me in particular... I'm going to give up 15 years of my life -- the time that most people spend getting married, having 2.5 kids, etc. to live in SV -- when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? Especially if you are a two parent household, the general MO is that the second smaller income can go straight to savings. It's quite easy for a dual income earning household to make 200K if one is software developer and the other just makes an average income for a college grad of $60K-$70K,
- friedman23 8y ago
  > I'm going to give up 15 years of my life -- the time that most people spend getting married, having 2.5 kids, etc. to live in SV -- when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? First of all I'm not "giving it up" and I have no desire for your lifestyle. It honestly sounds horrible. Enjoy your life.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I was hoping that the "2.5 kids" part would enforce that I'm not talking about me in particular since no one can have half a kid, but I was using the cliched "average number of kids per household".
    - friedman23 8y ago
      Yes I understood it, can you simply not believe that somebody doesn't want to live in a generic neighborhood behind a white picket fence?
- ska 8y ago
  when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? Why would you speak "in general" about something so specific - this really isn't a goal for everyone. All the best for you making your own decisions of course. In my case I will make considerable tradeoffs to hopefully never live in a 'burb again. It's also worth noting that cities aren't fungible.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Because the whole point is what the “average” developer is making across the country and not the outliers.
    - ska 8y ago
      What does that have to do with wanting/not wanting to live in the 'burbs ? Lots of "average" developers don't want to live in SV or a 'burb. You present it as some sort of weird dichotomy - reality is much more complex than that.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        It’s not about living in the burbs. The average developer could also live in a smaller condo in the center of the city in most metro areas. The point is more that it seems like people in the bubble think that a developer living in a major metro area outside of SV making in the low six figures is somehow living in squalor barely making ins meet when they can live where they want in most cities and save - especially if they are a part of a two income household.
        ska 8y ago
        Ok, I think you had a reasonable point that just wasn't articulated well. Somewhat separable from what that putative developer should be able to make, of course.
- cableshaft 8y ago
  Not so easy anymore with student loans for a lot of people. Between the my girlfriend and I, we are currently paying $1300 a month on student loan payments. That's pretty much a mortgage payment right there (for the Midwest, where we're living). And my student loans only got up to ~$25k. The average student loan debt per student at graduation was $37k as of a couple of years ago. Mine will be paid off within a couple of years, at least. She still has a long way to go. I honestly don't know how most people outside of software development or other high paying jobs make ends meet, nowadays. We're doing alright and we bought a house earlier this year, but we're still having to juggle money around during the month to make sure everything gets paid. And yet we're in the top 10% for household income in the country, supposedly (I'm not bragging; pretty much every individual developer on Hacker News that lives in SV should be in the top 5%). It really, really doesn't feel like it.
secabeen 8y ago
I think you may find it harder to relocate after 10-15 years. Your friends and community will be in SF, and leaving that, especially in your 40s can be very hard. When I moved in my early 20s, it took between 2-3 years to re-establish my friend networks and community in a new city. I would be hesitant to do that again. Kids make it even harder, as you may be pulling them away from their closest friends.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

scarface74 8y ago

Speaking in general, not about me in particular... I'm going to give up 15 years of my life -- the time that most people spend getting married, having 2.5 kids, etc. to live in SV -- when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? Especially if you are a two parent household, the general MO is that the second smaller income can go straight to savings. It's quite easy for a dual income earning household to make 200K if one is software developer and the other just makes an average income for a college grad of $60K-$70K,

friedman23 8y ago
> I'm going to give up 15 years of my life -- the time that most people spend getting married, having 2.5 kids, etc. to live in SV -- when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? First of all I'm not "giving it up" and I have no desire for your lifestyle. It honestly sounds horrible. Enjoy your life.
- scarface74 8y ago
  I was hoping that the "2.5 kids" part would enforce that I'm not talking about me in particular since no one can have half a kid, but I was using the cliched "average number of kids per household".
  - friedman23 8y ago
    Yes I understood it, can you simply not believe that somebody doesn't want to live in a generic neighborhood behind a white picket fence?
ska 8y ago
when I could spend those fifteen years living in the burbs in a big house with the white picket fence in almost any other major city in the US? Why would you speak "in general" about something so specific - this really isn't a goal for everyone. All the best for you making your own decisions of course. In my case I will make considerable tradeoffs to hopefully never live in a 'burb again. It's also worth noting that cities aren't fungible.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Because the whole point is what the “average” developer is making across the country and not the outliers.
  - ska 8y ago
    What does that have to do with wanting/not wanting to live in the 'burbs ? Lots of "average" developers don't want to live in SV or a 'burb. You present it as some sort of weird dichotomy - reality is much more complex than that.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      It’s not about living in the burbs. The average developer could also live in a smaller condo in the center of the city in most metro areas. The point is more that it seems like people in the bubble think that a developer living in a major metro area outside of SV making in the low six figures is somehow living in squalor barely making ins meet when they can live where they want in most cities and save - especially if they are a part of a two income household.
      - ska 8y ago
        Ok, I think you had a reasonable point that just wasn't articulated well. Somewhat separable from what that putative developer should be able to make, of course.
cableshaft 8y ago
Not so easy anymore with student loans for a lot of people. Between the my girlfriend and I, we are currently paying $1300 a month on student loan payments. That's pretty much a mortgage payment right there (for the Midwest, where we're living). And my student loans only got up to ~$25k. The average student loan debt per student at graduation was $37k as of a couple of years ago. Mine will be paid off within a couple of years, at least. She still has a long way to go. I honestly don't know how most people outside of software development or other high paying jobs make ends meet, nowadays. We're doing alright and we bought a house earlier this year, but we're still having to juggle money around during the month to make sure everything gets paid. And yet we're in the top 10% for household income in the country, supposedly (I'm not bragging; pretty much every individual developer on Hacker News that lives in SV should be in the top 5%). It really, really doesn't feel like it.

secabeen 8y ago

I think you may find it harder to relocate after 10-15 years. Your friends and community will be in SF, and leaving that, especially in your 40s can be very hard. When I moved in my early 20s, it took between 2-3 years to re-establish my friend networks and community in a new city. I would be hesitant to do that again. Kids make it even harder, as you may be pulling them away from their closest friends.

deleted 8y ago
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