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Male, went to a top 5 CS school, US west coast 2001: BigCo $76,000/year + $20,000 signing bonus (first job out of school) 2007: Freelancing between $100-$200/

Male, went to a top 5 CS school, US west coast 2001: BigCo $76,000/year + $20,000 signing bonus (first job out of school) 2007: Freelancing between $100-$200/hr depending on project 2012: Startup #1 $180,000/year + $75,000 signing bonus + a bit of stock that's never been worth anything (but I exercised upon leaving and paid a lot of taxes on, so I'm net negative ~$300k) 2015: Startup #2 $240,000/year + lots of stock that's never been worth anything Some thoughts on equity and BigCos vs. Startups: Before going to Startup #1 I rejected offer of ~$2MM RSUs at BigCo #2 (since split, now worth ~$15MM) and offer of ~$2MM RSU at BigCo #3 (now worth ~$10MM) in order to join what looked like a sure thing. Got another offer from BigCo #2 a few years later for ~$1MM RSUs (now worth $4MM). My peers that went to BigCos have done far, far better than me financially. All are above $500k/year in total comp, and quite a few above $1MM/year due to FAANG stocks going up so much. Startup compensation math just doesn't work when you're competing against the BigCos these days. Liquidity horizons are ~10 years for the few successes that work out, the equity portions are meager (esp after dilution). Even ignoring the risk of no liquidity event, you still come out behind what the big companies are paying these days. I'll probably never join a startup again, but if I do, all salary assumptions assume an equity value of zero.

pc86 8y ago
Is it any surprise that startups pay less than Google or Facebook? I don't know anyone that thinks they'll break even vs. FAANG, and that's even when counting stock options as cash (which 99% of people will rightly tell you to ignore).
- mysalarythrow 8y ago
  > Is it any surprise that startups pay less than Google or Facebook? I always knew startups would pay a less, but I always thought it wasn't that much less. Turns out I vastly over-estimated the chances of liquidity in startups, and vastly under-estimated just how much the BigCos are willing to pay as you climb up the ladder. Was a very eye opening experience when I started having frank conversations w/ peers at those BigCos
  - bradlys 8y ago
    I think your past mentality is what a lot of people have still in the bay area. It seems that every person I meet at startups thinks that their stock is going to be worth significantly more than the strike price. If a startup has a decent exit, it's usually that founders get a life changing amount of money and then employees get car changing amount of money. Even if my 50,000 shares sell at $10/piece... It's definitely not any better than what I would've received at Google/FB. And I'd be nearly guaranteed to get those shares at Big N and liquidate them vs low single digit chance at a startup. The expected value when it comes to stock compensation at startups, in my rough estimate, is maybe 10% of that of what you'd see at a Big N.
flatfilefan 8y ago
Out of curiosity and a bit of jealousy :-) What is the programming field companies are willing to give MM of RSU to programmers? Do you really make a difference to their top line? I had the impression that it’s more the project management and business development that can justify that compensation.
- jhall1468 8y ago
  $2MM RSU over 4 years is $500k in stock compensation. That kind of comp is less about field and more about level. You're looking at an L7+ for that kind of comp at any of the big companies (maybe L8?). So Senior Staff/Principal Engineer type of deal.
- mysalarythrow 8y ago
  Honestly, these companies just have so much money right now and their stock keeps on going up. They're competing for top talent, so bidding wars happen. These were L6 offers at the time. Gets much more ridiculous the higher you go (over $1MM/year comp) I'm not a super specialist or anything, just a solid developer (mostly front end, some back end)
  - hoaw 8y ago
    These companies are basically 'finance' at this point. Instead of markets and assets it's platforms and data.
tdelet 8y ago
not a programmer, but product manager. I feel your pain on startup #1. The startups are a crapshoot, they can be a great stepping stone, but assume the equity is worth zero. The right 'big company' is going to be more lucrative in most cases by a lot.

pc86 8y ago

Is it any surprise that startups pay less than Google or Facebook? I don't know anyone that thinks they'll break even vs. FAANG, and that's even when counting stock options as cash (which 99% of people will rightly tell you to ignore).

mysalarythrow 8y ago
> Is it any surprise that startups pay less than Google or Facebook? I always knew startups would pay a less, but I always thought it wasn't that much less. Turns out I vastly over-estimated the chances of liquidity in startups, and vastly under-estimated just how much the BigCos are willing to pay as you climb up the ladder. Was a very eye opening experience when I started having frank conversations w/ peers at those BigCos
- bradlys 8y ago
  I think your past mentality is what a lot of people have still in the bay area. It seems that every person I meet at startups thinks that their stock is going to be worth significantly more than the strike price. If a startup has a decent exit, it's usually that founders get a life changing amount of money and then employees get car changing amount of money. Even if my 50,000 shares sell at $10/piece... It's definitely not any better than what I would've received at Google/FB. And I'd be nearly guaranteed to get those shares at Big N and liquidate them vs low single digit chance at a startup. The expected value when it comes to stock compensation at startups, in my rough estimate, is maybe 10% of that of what you'd see at a Big N.

flatfilefan 8y ago

Out of curiosity and a bit of jealousy :-) What is the programming field companies are willing to give MM of RSU to programmers? Do you really make a difference to their top line? I had the impression that it’s more the project management and business development that can justify that compensation.

jhall1468 8y ago
$2MM RSU over 4 years is $500k in stock compensation. That kind of comp is less about field and more about level. You're looking at an L7+ for that kind of comp at any of the big companies (maybe L8?). So Senior Staff/Principal Engineer type of deal.
mysalarythrow 8y ago
Honestly, these companies just have so much money right now and their stock keeps on going up. They're competing for top talent, so bidding wars happen. These were L6 offers at the time. Gets much more ridiculous the higher you go (over $1MM/year comp) I'm not a super specialist or anything, just a solid developer (mostly front end, some back end)
- hoaw 8y ago
  These companies are basically 'finance' at this point. Instead of markets and assets it's platforms and data.

tdelet 8y ago

not a programmer, but product manager. I feel your pain on startup #1. The startups are a crapshoot, they can be a great stepping stone, but assume the equity is worth zero. The right 'big company' is going to be more lucrative in most cases by a lot.