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Barely hanging onto the top 50 at #49 according to the TIOBE index (Java is still #1). Make of that what you will. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://ww

Barely hanging onto the top 50 at #49 according to the TIOBE index (Java is still #1). Make of that what you will. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

yen223 8y ago
That index lists Ladder Logic (#45) as being ahead of Bash (#48). Make of that what you will.
- kamaal 8y ago
  That's because TIOBE derives metrics from search results. Which means every time some one searches 'Python, the snake', that also gets counted as 'Python, the programming language'. Most people looking for help on the internet are searching: "How do I do X in shell?" No of people looking for help with the word 'Bash' are likely to be lower. That's one reason why TIOBE is sometimes way off the real trends.
  - steveklabnik 8y ago
    I don't like TIOBE, and think it's a pretty bad index, but they search for "$LANG programming", not just $LANG. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi...
  - 200px 8y ago
    > Which means every time some one searches 'Python, the snake', that also gets counted as 'Python, the programming language'. This is false.
- jcelerier 8y ago
  well... yeah ? there are entire companies of thousand of electrical engineers working in LL. They just don't come and post about it to hackernews and make PLC projects in github, they do their 9-5 job and that's all. Compare https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=PLC+engineer https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=PLC+engineer and https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=bash+programmer https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=bash+programmer
  - ilikehurdles 8y ago
    >They just don't come and post about it to hackernews and make PLC projects in github Same logic applies to clojure. I think that's the point he's making. Everyone and their 12 year old nephew rockstar developer has questions about java. I also find that clojure questions nowadays are mainly asked in the clojurians slack organization. Immediate feedback is more attractive than waiting around hoping for an answer in stackoverflow.
    - nogridbag 8y ago
      Personally I prefer StackOverflow. SO is a wiki and it's likely my question and others' comments and answers will help someone else in the future. With any chat interface, it feels like your question may be lost if it's not immediately answered and it's often hard to follow discussions with multiple people chatting. With SO I will spend time to try and formulate a clear question. In general with slack or any other chat I may feel out the room first as it will be a waste of my time writing a detailed question if no one is around to answer. Perhaps some sort of SO integration into Slack would be the best of both worlds?
      - KingMob 8y ago
        While Slack is the most popular forum, there's also Clojureverse.org, which aims to be a more threaded and permanent repository of Clojure discussions and knowledge.
phaedryx 8y ago
What I make of it: "I'm quietly being productive with $LANG in my day-to-day job and loving it" doesn't move a language up the ranking.
cutler 8y ago
TIOBE is a joke.
zmmmmm 8y ago
I like the CloudFoundry report [1] better as a reflection of what businesses are actually using rather than search engine metrics (TIOBE) which are overly influenced by controversy and search engine methodologies than actual usage. However it's no prettier a picture, almost no functional languages in the list at all, only Scala making a significant dent (and you can debate whether that is functional or not). Other JVM languages like Groovy are significantly ahead of Clojure in all rankings. [1] https://www.cloudfoundry.org/wp-content/uploads/Developer-Language-Report_FINAL.pdf https://www.cloudfoundry.org/wp-content/uploads/Developer-La...
- vorg 8y ago
  > Other JVM languages like Groovy are significantly ahead of Clojure in all rankings. Apache Groovy fluctuates on TIOBE a lot. Six months ago it was at the same 50-ish position as Clojure, which is its usual ranking. It's shot up only in the past 6 months, which has also happened a lot in the past and is always followed by a sudden fall -- perhaps someone's gaming the search engine rankings. On Redmonk, Groovy and Clojure have ranked equal-ish for a long time. In the CloudFoundry report, Groovy is at the same very low rank as Others which would include Clojure if present. So Groovy and Clojure are at the same ranking in all rankings I've looked at.

Barely hanging onto the top 50 at #49 according to the TIOBE index (Java is still #1). Make of that what you will. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

yen223 8y ago

That index lists Ladder Logic (#45) as being ahead of Bash (#48). Make of that what you will.

kamaal 8y ago
That's because TIOBE derives metrics from search results. Which means every time some one searches 'Python, the snake', that also gets counted as 'Python, the programming language'. Most people looking for help on the internet are searching: "How do I do X in shell?" No of people looking for help with the word 'Bash' are likely to be lower. That's one reason why TIOBE is sometimes way off the real trends.
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  I don't like TIOBE, and think it's a pretty bad index, but they search for "$LANG programming", not just $LANG. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi...
- 200px 8y ago
  > Which means every time some one searches 'Python, the snake', that also gets counted as 'Python, the programming language'. This is false.
jcelerier 8y ago
well... yeah ? there are entire companies of thousand of electrical engineers working in LL. They just don't come and post about it to hackernews and make PLC projects in github, they do their 9-5 job and that's all. Compare https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=PLC+engineer https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=PLC+engineer and https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=bash+programmer https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=bash+programmer
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  >They just don't come and post about it to hackernews and make PLC projects in github Same logic applies to clojure. I think that's the point he's making. Everyone and their 12 year old nephew rockstar developer has questions about java. I also find that clojure questions nowadays are mainly asked in the clojurians slack organization. Immediate feedback is more attractive than waiting around hoping for an answer in stackoverflow.
  - nogridbag 8y ago
    Personally I prefer StackOverflow. SO is a wiki and it's likely my question and others' comments and answers will help someone else in the future. With any chat interface, it feels like your question may be lost if it's not immediately answered and it's often hard to follow discussions with multiple people chatting. With SO I will spend time to try and formulate a clear question. In general with slack or any other chat I may feel out the room first as it will be a waste of my time writing a detailed question if no one is around to answer. Perhaps some sort of SO integration into Slack would be the best of both worlds?
    - KingMob 8y ago
      While Slack is the most popular forum, there's also Clojureverse.org, which aims to be a more threaded and permanent repository of Clojure discussions and knowledge.

phaedryx 8y ago

What I make of it: "I'm quietly being productive with $LANG in my day-to-day job and loving it" doesn't move a language up the ranking.

cutler 8y ago

TIOBE is a joke.

zmmmmm 8y ago

I like the CloudFoundry report [1] better as a reflection of what businesses are actually using rather than search engine metrics (TIOBE) which are overly influenced by controversy and search engine methodologies than actual usage. However it's no prettier a picture, almost no functional languages in the list at all, only Scala making a significant dent (and you can debate whether that is functional or not). Other JVM languages like Groovy are significantly ahead of Clojure in all rankings. [1] https://www.cloudfoundry.org/wp-content/uploads/Developer-Language-Report_FINAL.pdf https://www.cloudfoundry.org/wp-content/uploads/Developer-La...

vorg 8y ago
> Other JVM languages like Groovy are significantly ahead of Clojure in all rankings. Apache Groovy fluctuates on TIOBE a lot. Six months ago it was at the same 50-ish position as Clojure, which is its usual ranking. It's shot up only in the past 6 months, which has also happened a lot in the past and is always followed by a sudden fall -- perhaps someone's gaming the search engine rankings. On Redmonk, Groovy and Clojure have ranked equal-ish for a long time. In the CloudFoundry report, Groovy is at the same very low rank as Others which would include Clojure if present. So Groovy and Clojure are at the same ranking in all rankings I've looked at.