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The pay rates for tradies in Australia is phenomenal. If I had kids, I'd be encouraging them to become electricians, not software engineers. Even a lot of unsk

The pay rates for tradies in Australia is phenomenal. If I had kids, I'd be encouraging them to become electricians, not software engineers. Even a lot of unskilled jobs pay really well in Australia. I have a friend who works for Aldi in their distribution centre as a general worker, and he's on $35 per hour (only 6 hour shifts though, I think), plus when he's rostered on Sunday he goes up to $70 an hour. Anecdotally, as a software developer in Melbourne for a small company, with 2 years experience, I'm on AU$75k + super, which is a pretty comfortable wage. Coming from NZ$42k (and only 3% super) back in New Zealand, it was certainly a nice payrise.

onetimemanytime 8y ago
<<I have a friend who works for Aldi in their distribution centre as a general worker, and he's on $35 per hour (only 6 hour shifts though, I think), plus when he's rostered on Sunday he goes up to $70 an hour. How much does a cup of coffee go for in Au?
- wfriesen 8y ago
  Around $4. And developers can certainly make over 100/hr, but in my experience that would mean contracting/consulting as a specialist with at least 5 years experience in a given technology.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    so you just make and save money in Australia? Rent and all are normal prices or what's the story ? I know the economy has been booming for 20+ years.
    - wfriesen 8y ago
      The housing market, and thus rents, have also boomed in that time. General cost of living is also pretty high in Australia.
  - shoo 8y ago
    (in melbourne) $4 a coffee for fancy cafes in expensive parts of town. $0 a coffee if you dont care and are happy to swig whatever is free at work. can certainly hit $aud 100 / hour and upwards for full-time contract gigs with bigcos (banks, finance, telcos). can hit that with less than 5 years experience. if the client knows what they're doing they may also assess for ability, not just years experience. but at least some big clients don't know what they're doing and are overrun with whatever resources of varying ability bodyshops manage to palm off onto their projects.
    - wfriesen 8y ago
      Private companies are probably more likely to account for actual experience. I've mostly dealt with government contracting where 5 years seemed to be the magic threshold.
hnzix 8y ago
Oz has a fairly hard and low dev salary ceiling for smaller companies, excepting maybe some Melbourne hotspots. If you want decent scratch you have to go corporate, but the content often sucks.
- quickthrower2 8y ago
  I think the reason for that is American tech companies simply make a lot more money. They have a bigger market to server and USA first makes it easier to conquer the rest of the world, but Australia first normally ends up sandboxed in Australia, with some exceptions. The companies selling internationally will tend to pay more, as well as the cartels e.g. the banks, super, etc.
tybit 8y ago
At 2 years experience I was on ~50k package in Melbourne, and at 6 years ~200k. The pay tends to start off a lot lower here compared to the hot spots in the US but somewhat catches up from what I’ve seen.
- sumedh 8y ago
  Can you describe you position, I am assuming an architect?
  - tybit 8y ago
    Just a senior dev but contracting.
brod 8y ago
Likewise, living in Melbourne Australia, I dropped out of school after year 11, tried an mechanical apprenticeship for a year but didn't like it so I started freelancing (Javascript) in 2013. 2013 $20k (freelance) 100+ clients 2014 $75k (salary + super) 100+ employees 2015 $70k (salary + super) ~50 employees 2016 $120k (freelance) 8 clients 2017 $70k (salary + super) 3 employees 2018 $90k (salary + super) ~15 employees 2016 was by far my best year, still living at home (with parents) and after tax almost all of it went into savings. At this stage I plan negotiating for $120k after christmas which I think is inline with my peers. And for those talking about $4 coffee's, most places I know give discount if you BYO cup!
EADGBE 8y ago
American here, I'm not convinced I shouldn't encourage my kids to get into the trades.
- thrmsforbfast 8y ago
  Do you have family or friends in the trades? I always get called elitist/out-of-touch when I point this out, but it's really true that most people working in trades do $50k with mediocre benefits. Everyone always lashes out at this with anecdata, but both the hard data from Labor and the 15+ datapoints I have personally all seem to agree that $60k is "really good", and that's with overtime. Statistically, for every wealthy plumber/small business owner pulling down 100k+, there are a lot of folks pulling down $50k or less working for the man. Other downsides: The trades are extremely sensitive to certain types of recessions. And most trades are hard on your body. Plumber is actually one of the better trades from that perspective. Even stuff like welding and machining, which outsides think of as less hard on your body, are usually brutal. If the setup was such that they don't need you carrying stuff, going up and down stairs, etc. all day -- ie. if you could just stand in one place and weld/cnc without doing back-breaking labor -- then they'd have automated the work already. This might all be specific to the two labor markets I know most well, but... sigh for smart kids, going to college for an in-demand STEM degree is still a great life choice and probably much higher ROI than a trade. And saying so isn't elitist. Driving truck also seems to do better over the past two decades than most trades. Still sensitive to recessions, but much less so. None of my trucker relatives/friends have had bouts of unemployment since 2008, but all the construction and manufacturing trades have been in and out of work pretty much continually since 2009 (maybe things got better around late 2015) If college isn't for your kids, have them also consider healthcare. Might be more stable during recessions and less hard on their body. The only downside is that there are fewer options for entrepreneurial endeavors than in the trades. Also, outside of large cities, there's only one or two dominant employers and that holds down wages. But the same is true in tech and trades.
  - ssully 8y ago
    I have found the HN crowed has a rosey view on trade jobs that doesn't seem to reflect reality. Family members of mine are employed primarily by trades (lots of plumbers, some carpenters and electrician's) and a lot of what you say is spot on. There are certainly cases where they can make a lot of money, but it's definitely not easy not a golden ticket that I see a lot of HN comments make it out to be.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

<<I have a friend who works for Aldi in their distribution centre as a general worker, and he's on $35 per hour (only 6 hour shifts though, I think), plus when he's rostered on Sunday he goes up to $70 an hour. How much does a cup of coffee go for in Au?

wfriesen 8y ago
Around $4. And developers can certainly make over 100/hr, but in my experience that would mean contracting/consulting as a specialist with at least 5 years experience in a given technology.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  so you just make and save money in Australia? Rent and all are normal prices or what's the story ? I know the economy has been booming for 20+ years.
  - wfriesen 8y ago
    The housing market, and thus rents, have also boomed in that time. General cost of living is also pretty high in Australia.
- shoo 8y ago
  (in melbourne) $4 a coffee for fancy cafes in expensive parts of town. $0 a coffee if you dont care and are happy to swig whatever is free at work. can certainly hit $aud 100 / hour and upwards for full-time contract gigs with bigcos (banks, finance, telcos). can hit that with less than 5 years experience. if the client knows what they're doing they may also assess for ability, not just years experience. but at least some big clients don't know what they're doing and are overrun with whatever resources of varying ability bodyshops manage to palm off onto their projects.
  - wfriesen 8y ago
    Private companies are probably more likely to account for actual experience. I've mostly dealt with government contracting where 5 years seemed to be the magic threshold.

hnzix 8y ago

Oz has a fairly hard and low dev salary ceiling for smaller companies, excepting maybe some Melbourne hotspots. If you want decent scratch you have to go corporate, but the content often sucks.

quickthrower2 8y ago
I think the reason for that is American tech companies simply make a lot more money. They have a bigger market to server and USA first makes it easier to conquer the rest of the world, but Australia first normally ends up sandboxed in Australia, with some exceptions. The companies selling internationally will tend to pay more, as well as the cartels e.g. the banks, super, etc.

tybit 8y ago

At 2 years experience I was on ~50k package in Melbourne, and at 6 years ~200k. The pay tends to start off a lot lower here compared to the hot spots in the US but somewhat catches up from what I’ve seen.

sumedh 8y ago
Can you describe you position, I am assuming an architect?
- tybit 8y ago
  Just a senior dev but contracting.

brod 8y ago

Likewise, living in Melbourne Australia, I dropped out of school after year 11, tried an mechanical apprenticeship for a year but didn't like it so I started freelancing (Javascript) in 2013. 2013 $20k (freelance) 100+ clients 2014 $75k (salary + super) 100+ employees 2015 $70k (salary + super) ~50 employees 2016 $120k (freelance) 8 clients 2017 $70k (salary + super) 3 employees 2018 $90k (salary + super) ~15 employees 2016 was by far my best year, still living at home (with parents) and after tax almost all of it went into savings. At this stage I plan negotiating for $120k after christmas which I think is inline with my peers. And for those talking about $4 coffee's, most places I know give discount if you BYO cup!

EADGBE 8y ago

American here, I'm not convinced I shouldn't encourage my kids to get into the trades.

thrmsforbfast 8y ago
Do you have family or friends in the trades? I always get called elitist/out-of-touch when I point this out, but it's really true that most people working in trades do $50k with mediocre benefits. Everyone always lashes out at this with anecdata, but both the hard data from Labor and the 15+ datapoints I have personally all seem to agree that $60k is "really good", and that's with overtime. Statistically, for every wealthy plumber/small business owner pulling down 100k+, there are a lot of folks pulling down $50k or less working for the man. Other downsides: The trades are extremely sensitive to certain types of recessions. And most trades are hard on your body. Plumber is actually one of the better trades from that perspective. Even stuff like welding and machining, which outsides think of as less hard on your body, are usually brutal. If the setup was such that they don't need you carrying stuff, going up and down stairs, etc. all day -- ie. if you could just stand in one place and weld/cnc without doing back-breaking labor -- then they'd have automated the work already. This might all be specific to the two labor markets I know most well, but... sigh for smart kids, going to college for an in-demand STEM degree is still a great life choice and probably much higher ROI than a trade. And saying so isn't elitist. Driving truck also seems to do better over the past two decades than most trades. Still sensitive to recessions, but much less so. None of my trucker relatives/friends have had bouts of unemployment since 2008, but all the construction and manufacturing trades have been in and out of work pretty much continually since 2009 (maybe things got better around late 2015) If college isn't for your kids, have them also consider healthcare. Might be more stable during recessions and less hard on their body. The only downside is that there are fewer options for entrepreneurial endeavors than in the trades. Also, outside of large cities, there's only one or two dominant employers and that holds down wages. But the same is true in tech and trades.
- ssully 8y ago
  I have found the HN crowed has a rosey view on trade jobs that doesn't seem to reflect reality. Family members of mine are employed primarily by trades (lots of plumbers, some carpenters and electrician's) and a lot of what you say is spot on. There are certainly cases where they can make a lot of money, but it's definitely not easy not a golden ticket that I see a lot of HN comments make it out to be.