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Without the adjectives these sentences would be tautological. Everyone has “expectations”, uses “muscle activation” and “integrates” movements to achieve physic

Without the adjectives these sentences would be tautological. Everyone has “expectations”, uses “muscle activation” and “integrates” movements to achieve physical tasks. Etc. The adjectives emphasize that these are skills in excess of inherent human capabilities, requiring someone with special experience/training. Just because Jony Ive uses adjectives in slickly produced marketing videos doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t use adjectives where appropriate in conversation.

glibgil 8y ago
Nah, the adjectives are hand-wavy and unqualified. They mean nothing
- theoh 8y ago
  Manual crafts require nuanced involvement with tools and techniques. Typing on a keyboard or a touchscreen interface doesn't. If you don't believe that a skilled craftsperson, musician, etc., has a higher level of judgement and dexterity than the average, is there anything physical that you do think humans can excel at?
- waterhouse 8y ago
  toss1 gives a precise meaning in the next paragraph: "E.g., if the ordinary person can distinguish a pressure difference of 1g on his fingertip, a pianist or surgeon would be able to distinguish 0.1g pressure." That is an objective test someone could perform and, toss1 says, researchers have performed.
  - toss1 8y ago
    Yes, it is something we studied in several neuroscience classes. What's really cool is that you can have developed such a skill without even realizing it. The professors were demonstrating one of the visual tests of discrimination in a flat light field and I was the subject. The test was a pattern of light/dark bars where the contrast and edges were flattened beyond recognition, presented, then in slow steps distinction restored to the point where you could see a difference. Turns out I could literally see as obvious distinctions that no one else could see as anything but a perfectly flat-light screen. Our conjecture was that it developed from years of looking for the tiniest variations in fields of snow in flat light where a little ripple or angle can make a big difference skiing at 80mph. But until we did that test, I could never have told you that I could distinguish anything better than anyone else. Perceptual neuro guys/gals do these kinds of tests all the time finding the limits of the perceptual/neruo systems, and often find these, ahem, heightened abilities in top level athletes musicians, etc. There's also some fun ones where they expected to find some and didn't (topic for another day)
    - glibgil 8y ago
      > Turns out I could literally see as obvious distinctions that no one else could see... big difference skiing at 80mph lol > ahem wow
- toss1 8y ago
  I chuckled at the snark in your 1st post, but jacobolus is right about the words are there to illustrate that these are far beyond ordinary capabilities (both in results & time to acquire). They are not merely unqualified; e.g., the "heightened" is specifically described in the next paragraph as e.g., developing 10x perceptual resolution/sensitivity. That said, there may be a bit of hand-waving vagueness, as I'm trying for a short post, not a thesis (my experiences in international competition led me to study neuroscience in college). More broadly, if you've had enough of the physical experience to understand the points, you need little explanation, and if you don't, there's almost no explanation you'll understand. Spend a decade or two learning & refining a true physical skill, craft, sport, musical instrument, martial art, or something and come back and tell us that the words have no meaning. Once you've been there, you'll tell us instead that the words were inadequate expressions of the phenomena. ("There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy")
  - glibgil 8y ago
    > Once you've been there, you'll tell us instead that the words were inadequate expressions of the phenomena > developing 10x perceptual resolution/sensitivity Invoking the term "10x" does not make you sound objective and measurable > Spend a decade or two learning & refining a true physical skill, craft, sport, musical instrument, martial art, or something and come back and tell us that the words have no meaning They have no meaning. I'm really good at a sport that is hard to do. My gosh you are bizarrely condescending > my experiences in international competition led me to study neuroscience in college lol
    - cr1895 8y ago
      >My gosh you are bizarrely condescending >Ok, Jony Ive >lol
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

glibgil 8y ago

Nah, the adjectives are hand-wavy and unqualified. They mean nothing

theoh 8y ago
Manual crafts require nuanced involvement with tools and techniques. Typing on a keyboard or a touchscreen interface doesn't. If you don't believe that a skilled craftsperson, musician, etc., has a higher level of judgement and dexterity than the average, is there anything physical that you do think humans can excel at?
waterhouse 8y ago
toss1 gives a precise meaning in the next paragraph: "E.g., if the ordinary person can distinguish a pressure difference of 1g on his fingertip, a pianist or surgeon would be able to distinguish 0.1g pressure." That is an objective test someone could perform and, toss1 says, researchers have performed.
- toss1 8y ago
  Yes, it is something we studied in several neuroscience classes. What's really cool is that you can have developed such a skill without even realizing it. The professors were demonstrating one of the visual tests of discrimination in a flat light field and I was the subject. The test was a pattern of light/dark bars where the contrast and edges were flattened beyond recognition, presented, then in slow steps distinction restored to the point where you could see a difference. Turns out I could literally see as obvious distinctions that no one else could see as anything but a perfectly flat-light screen. Our conjecture was that it developed from years of looking for the tiniest variations in fields of snow in flat light where a little ripple or angle can make a big difference skiing at 80mph. But until we did that test, I could never have told you that I could distinguish anything better than anyone else. Perceptual neuro guys/gals do these kinds of tests all the time finding the limits of the perceptual/neruo systems, and often find these, ahem, heightened abilities in top level athletes musicians, etc. There's also some fun ones where they expected to find some and didn't (topic for another day)
  - glibgil 8y ago
    > Turns out I could literally see as obvious distinctions that no one else could see... big difference skiing at 80mph lol > ahem wow
toss1 8y ago
I chuckled at the snark in your 1st post, but jacobolus is right about the words are there to illustrate that these are far beyond ordinary capabilities (both in results & time to acquire). They are not merely unqualified; e.g., the "heightened" is specifically described in the next paragraph as e.g., developing 10x perceptual resolution/sensitivity. That said, there may be a bit of hand-waving vagueness, as I'm trying for a short post, not a thesis (my experiences in international competition led me to study neuroscience in college). More broadly, if you've had enough of the physical experience to understand the points, you need little explanation, and if you don't, there's almost no explanation you'll understand. Spend a decade or two learning & refining a true physical skill, craft, sport, musical instrument, martial art, or something and come back and tell us that the words have no meaning. Once you've been there, you'll tell us instead that the words were inadequate expressions of the phenomena. ("There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy")
- glibgil 8y ago
  > Once you've been there, you'll tell us instead that the words were inadequate expressions of the phenomena > developing 10x perceptual resolution/sensitivity Invoking the term "10x" does not make you sound objective and measurable > Spend a decade or two learning & refining a true physical skill, craft, sport, musical instrument, martial art, or something and come back and tell us that the words have no meaning They have no meaning. I'm really good at a sport that is hard to do. My gosh you are bizarrely condescending > my experiences in international competition led me to study neuroscience in college lol
  - cr1895 8y ago
    >My gosh you are bizarrely condescending >Ok, Jony Ive >lol
deleted 8y ago
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