13 ms·

The biggest pain for me of lack of access to the underlying OS has turned out not to be any of my thousands of tiny gripes with the way the software works that

by drb91 8y ago

The biggest pain for me of lack of access to the underlying OS has turned out not to be any of my thousands of tiny gripes with the way the software works that I can't change (e.g. setting dns on the cell connection), but the lack of transparency and ability to debug basic processes. What is the computer doing now? Why is it hanging? Why did that app crash? Why is my network failing? Who is that app talking to? My main fear is not, in the end, that I won't control or own my device (though I do feel this), but that it will turn computing from a transparent network of understandable processes—which I find beautiful, and which drew me deep into programming—into a Kafkaesque nightmare of inexplicably bad software and automated computer support, not just from apple, but from all the apps in the market they created. I am absolutely sure that they will port XCode to the iPad itself and allow visibility into my own apps. This is not the same as a workstation. EDIT: in retrospect, this is only tangentially related to parent post—my apologies. Also: wording, punctuation.

SiVal 8y ago
The reason Apple cares so much more about iOS than MacOS is vastly increased control. With iOS, they control the hardware from the chips up, the OS, which apps you can run, and via Safari-only access to the internet, even what you can and can't do using external services. It makes computing & communications an Apple theme park, where you can't bring anything forbidden into the park, have to buy everything you need from Apple concessionaires, and can't do anything that they haven't planned for you to do. The people in the "park" pay to enter and then become a new type of domesticated herd to be milked. You can't allow people to bring heavy equipment and power tools into a theme park, but you also can't build the park's controlled features without them, so how do you give power to authorized builders while keeping it away from users? In a physical theme park, they have controlled users during the day and empowered builders at night. But in Appleworld, I'm thinking they'll keep iOS locked down by limiting the building tools to MacOS. A unix-style workstation that gives maximum power to its users is so antithetical to everything Apple stands for that MacOS would never be created today, but since it already exists, they can take advantage of it to make iOS even more locked down than it would have been. (And refuse to let any other company use MacOS and not port Xcode anywhere else.) You want to see what your computer is doing (file sys, CPU procs, memory, network, etc.)? Do it with a Mac. iOS is not YOUR computer. It's Apple's. You only paid for admission to iOS, and you aren't allowed behind the locked doors. If you want control, you're in the wrong place. I'm afraid that if they ever figure out how to sandbox an iOS partition of some sort to allow builder tools to run on iOS itself in a totally controlled way, then the Mac is toast, but the Mac gives them time. I think that for the foreseeable future, they won't risk any accidental empowerment of iOS users and will limit the power tools to the Mac.
- readit3 8y ago
  Thank you, Sir for making it clear for all fanboys out there. Add to this fiasco virtually non existent support, slow hardware update, no easy repairability, dongle gate, no long term driver support for devices, telemetry, root gate etc. Actually i think that is time to give pressure on companies for better Linux support. And live Crapple for the delusional ones.
- pikorino 8y ago
  The reason Apple cares so much more about iOS than MacOS is easily obtainable through earnings reports.
- threeseed 8y ago
  1. It's not Safari only. It's Webkit only and there are legitimate security reasons for this. 2. The idea that UNIX is antithetical to what Apple stands for is just ridiculous. It is still at the core of iOS and MacOS and is one of the areas where Apple continues to innovate. 3. Apple licensed MacOS in the past. It nearly killed the company since third parties like PowerComputing went straight after their core base and did nothing to grow the ecosystem. 4. You can see what your iOS device is doing. Plenty of apps allow you to see what processes are running, file system behaviour etc. Apple just doesn't build it in. 5. Anyone who thinks the Mac is dead needs to go have a lie down with some chamomile tea. Apple even today doubled down on the Mac with the new Air + Mini. And they will continue to grow and invest in the platform since content creation will always be largely done on a Mac.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    >4. You can see what your iOS device is doing. Plenty of apps allow you to see what processes are running, file system behaviour etc. Apple just doesn't build it in. Do you have any examples? I've never seen anything like this in the app store. Some apps give you limited access to their filesystem but (as a Jailbreaker) I'm pretty sure the larger system isn't viewable under normal circumstances.
    - brisance 8y ago
klinquist 8y ago
>What is the computer doing now? Why is it hanging? Why did that app crash? For what it's worth... On a computer, I'd look at log files. On an iPad, I'd plug it into my computer... then look at log files.
- gcb0 8y ago
  and then realize the closed app you are using have none.
- snazz 8y ago
  You can also go to Settings>Privacy>Analytics>Analytics Data and see some pretty specific logs on why things crashed or why they were slow. You can see if an app used too much CPU time, OOM kills (a.k.a. JetsamEvents, in iOS-lingo), and explanations for app crashes (I can see that iOS killed an app for trying to write to the photos library without permission, for instance).
mlindner 8y ago
You have to keep in mind that apple is going to dogfood any potential "iPad as workstation" product with it's own developers. If their own developers jump out in rage then they'll fix it before release.
- drb91 8y ago
  > If their own developers jump out in rage then they'll fix it before release. That strikes me as very optimistic: the business needs come first.

by drb91 8y ago

SiVal 8y ago

The reason Apple cares so much more about iOS than MacOS is vastly increased control. With iOS, they control the hardware from the chips up, the OS, which apps you can run, and via Safari-only access to the internet, even what you can and can't do using external services. It makes computing & communications an Apple theme park, where you can't bring anything forbidden into the park, have to buy everything you need from Apple concessionaires, and can't do anything that they haven't planned for you to do. The people in the "park" pay to enter and then become a new type of domesticated herd to be milked. You can't allow people to bring heavy equipment and power tools into a theme park, but you also can't build the park's controlled features without them, so how do you give power to authorized builders while keeping it away from users? In a physical theme park, they have controlled users during the day and empowered builders at night. But in Appleworld, I'm thinking they'll keep iOS locked down by limiting the building tools to MacOS. A unix-style workstation that gives maximum power to its users is so antithetical to everything Apple stands for that MacOS would never be created today, but since it already exists, they can take advantage of it to make iOS even more locked down than it would have been. (And refuse to let any other company use MacOS and not port Xcode anywhere else.) You want to see what your computer is doing (file sys, CPU procs, memory, network, etc.)? Do it with a Mac. iOS is not YOUR computer. It's Apple's. You only paid for admission to iOS, and you aren't allowed behind the locked doors. If you want control, you're in the wrong place. I'm afraid that if they ever figure out how to sandbox an iOS partition of some sort to allow builder tools to run on iOS itself in a totally controlled way, then the Mac is toast, but the Mac gives them time. I think that for the foreseeable future, they won't risk any accidental empowerment of iOS users and will limit the power tools to the Mac.

readit3 8y ago
Thank you, Sir for making it clear for all fanboys out there. Add to this fiasco virtually non existent support, slow hardware update, no easy repairability, dongle gate, no long term driver support for devices, telemetry, root gate etc. Actually i think that is time to give pressure on companies for better Linux support. And live Crapple for the delusional ones.
pikorino 8y ago
The reason Apple cares so much more about iOS than MacOS is easily obtainable through earnings reports.
threeseed 8y ago
1. It's not Safari only. It's Webkit only and there are legitimate security reasons for this. 2. The idea that UNIX is antithetical to what Apple stands for is just ridiculous. It is still at the core of iOS and MacOS and is one of the areas where Apple continues to innovate. 3. Apple licensed MacOS in the past. It nearly killed the company since third parties like PowerComputing went straight after their core base and did nothing to grow the ecosystem. 4. You can see what your iOS device is doing. Plenty of apps allow you to see what processes are running, file system behaviour etc. Apple just doesn't build it in. 5. Anyone who thinks the Mac is dead needs to go have a lie down with some chamomile tea. Apple even today doubled down on the Mac with the new Air + Mini. And they will continue to grow and invest in the platform since content creation will always be largely done on a Mac.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  >4. You can see what your iOS device is doing. Plenty of apps allow you to see what processes are running, file system behaviour etc. Apple just doesn't build it in. Do you have any examples? I've never seen anything like this in the app store. Some apps give you limited access to their filesystem but (as a Jailbreaker) I'm pretty sure the larger system isn't viewable under normal circumstances.
  - brisance 8y ago

klinquist 8y ago

>What is the computer doing now? Why is it hanging? Why did that app crash? For what it's worth... On a computer, I'd look at log files. On an iPad, I'd plug it into my computer... then look at log files.

gcb0 8y ago
and then realize the closed app you are using have none.
snazz 8y ago
You can also go to Settings>Privacy>Analytics>Analytics Data and see some pretty specific logs on why things crashed or why they were slow. You can see if an app used too much CPU time, OOM kills (a.k.a. JetsamEvents, in iOS-lingo), and explanations for app crashes (I can see that iOS killed an app for trying to write to the photos library without permission, for instance).

mlindner 8y ago

You have to keep in mind that apple is going to dogfood any potential "iPad as workstation" product with it's own developers. If their own developers jump out in rage then they'll fix it before release.

drb91 8y ago
> If their own developers jump out in rage then they'll fix it before release. That strikes me as very optimistic: the business needs come first.