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What happens if the T2 Chip fails? Is it possible to recover data on the disk? Or do we have to recover data from the last backup?

wmf 8y ago
It's probably impossible if the T2 itself fails; I imagine the encryption keys are in there. Data recovery is possible if the T2 is working: https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/20/apple-t2-data-recovery-transfer-imac-pro-macbook/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/20/apple-t2-data-recovery-transf...
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  With multiple points of failure, backups become so much more important.
jonahhorowitz 8y ago
You can store recovery keys externally if that is consistent with your threat model.
thelittleone 8y ago
As an example, the current gen Macbook Pro has an SSD that is soldered to the motherboard (so you obviously can't remove it and cable it up to USB via an adapter to extract data). Apple installed a port on the motherboard that their techs can use to recover data if the motherboard fails. But sure enough it didn't work with my 11 month old Macbook Pro. Moral of the story... even if Apple has a mechanism for hardware failures, there's a chance it won't work.
- Dunedan 8y ago
  The current generation of MacBook Pro doesn't have such a recovery port for the SSD anymore. The MacBook Pro 2016 and MacBook Pro 2017 had such a port, but the MacBook Pro 2018, which features the T2 chip, doesn't. As the encryption keys are located inside the T2 chip, if that chips breaks, all data on the SSD is lost.
  - PopsiclePete 8y ago
    >As the encryption keys are located inside the T2 chip, if that chips breaks, all data on the SSD is lost. All my "valuable" stuff is on github, or google drive, or icloud photos or something-or-other. My local drive is really just a local "cache" for speed purposes. I don't see how else you're expected to not lose sleep at night anymore.
    - thelittleone 8y ago
      I had been using iCloud for backup up until a DJ gig where I came to realize that upon enabling iCloud it had automatically moved all my AIFF music files to the cloud, leaving only a symlink behind. So that gig was a failure and pretty unprofessional. I disabled iCloud and a few days later kaboom, the Macbook died! I lost everything. My mistake for assuming the SSD could be removed and plugged in via an USB caddy. Apple replaced everything except the bottom case. I picked up the laptop with 100% charge, tested it was working. I jumped on a flight home (no apple store in my country) and that night kaboom, Macbook died again! What are the odds? I hadn't plugged it in to anything. The eventually agreed to give me a brand new one. The positive side of this experience was forcing me to use an iMac and only work from home office during specific hourse and to not be attached at the hip to my laptop. Net positive for my wife and I.
shittyadmin 8y ago
I'm just waiting for the Rossmann video when someone manages to spill some Coke on their T2 chip... Shit like this is why I will never buy another Apple product. With my encrypted drives I can pull them out, put them in another machine and decrypt them no issues.
- bunnycorn 8y ago
  Then they are not encrypted.
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    Encrypted using passwords = not encrypted. Yeah, okay, tell that to the FBI who couldn't break TrueCrypt only a few years ago.
- pilif 8y ago
  And the same goes for whoever steals/subpoenas your machine. Shit like this is why I only buy Apple products. The data I care about I have (encrypted) backups of. Not having backups and hoping that a specific hardware failure will not affect my ability to restore is equivalent to, well, just not having backups to begin with.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    > And the same goes for whoever steals/subpoenas your machine. Yes, because clearly all other encryption technologies are so vulnerable to theives and cops. There's only a pile of evidence of TrueCrypt and Bitlocker being quite effective in the field against both criminals and law enforcement agents. And that's not to mention SSD-based technologies which still allow for portability while mitigating some of the more theoretical attacks. > The data I care about I have (encrypted) backups of. Not having backups and hoping that a specific hardware failure will not affect my ability to restore is equivalent to, well, just not having backups to begin with. This is a good strategy, I too employ it with the majority of my important data, but it's just not realistic for normal people. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some scratch note or IDA database file that I'd be missing if I lost my desktop drive today...
duxup 8y ago
Unless they let you export the keys, difficult conversation time. I did some support for some encryption devices a long time ago. If someone was having that difficult conversation (you could just tell it was about to happen) we would all silently gather around to hear how it went...

wmf 8y ago

It's probably impossible if the T2 itself fails; I imagine the encryption keys are in there. Data recovery is possible if the T2 is working: https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/20/apple-t2-data-recovery-transfer-imac-pro-macbook/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/20/apple-t2-data-recovery-transf...

bonestamp2 8y ago
With multiple points of failure, backups become so much more important.

jonahhorowitz 8y ago

You can store recovery keys externally if that is consistent with your threat model.

thelittleone 8y ago

As an example, the current gen Macbook Pro has an SSD that is soldered to the motherboard (so you obviously can't remove it and cable it up to USB via an adapter to extract data). Apple installed a port on the motherboard that their techs can use to recover data if the motherboard fails. But sure enough it didn't work with my 11 month old Macbook Pro. Moral of the story... even if Apple has a mechanism for hardware failures, there's a chance it won't work.

Dunedan 8y ago
The current generation of MacBook Pro doesn't have such a recovery port for the SSD anymore. The MacBook Pro 2016 and MacBook Pro 2017 had such a port, but the MacBook Pro 2018, which features the T2 chip, doesn't. As the encryption keys are located inside the T2 chip, if that chips breaks, all data on the SSD is lost.
- PopsiclePete 8y ago
  >As the encryption keys are located inside the T2 chip, if that chips breaks, all data on the SSD is lost. All my "valuable" stuff is on github, or google drive, or icloud photos or something-or-other. My local drive is really just a local "cache" for speed purposes. I don't see how else you're expected to not lose sleep at night anymore.
  - thelittleone 8y ago
    I had been using iCloud for backup up until a DJ gig where I came to realize that upon enabling iCloud it had automatically moved all my AIFF music files to the cloud, leaving only a symlink behind. So that gig was a failure and pretty unprofessional. I disabled iCloud and a few days later kaboom, the Macbook died! I lost everything. My mistake for assuming the SSD could be removed and plugged in via an USB caddy. Apple replaced everything except the bottom case. I picked up the laptop with 100% charge, tested it was working. I jumped on a flight home (no apple store in my country) and that night kaboom, Macbook died again! What are the odds? I hadn't plugged it in to anything. The eventually agreed to give me a brand new one. The positive side of this experience was forcing me to use an iMac and only work from home office during specific hourse and to not be attached at the hip to my laptop. Net positive for my wife and I.

shittyadmin 8y ago

I'm just waiting for the Rossmann video when someone manages to spill some Coke on their T2 chip... Shit like this is why I will never buy another Apple product. With my encrypted drives I can pull them out, put them in another machine and decrypt them no issues.

bunnycorn 8y ago
Then they are not encrypted.
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  Encrypted using passwords = not encrypted. Yeah, okay, tell that to the FBI who couldn't break TrueCrypt only a few years ago.
pilif 8y ago
And the same goes for whoever steals/subpoenas your machine. Shit like this is why I only buy Apple products. The data I care about I have (encrypted) backups of. Not having backups and hoping that a specific hardware failure will not affect my ability to restore is equivalent to, well, just not having backups to begin with.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  > And the same goes for whoever steals/subpoenas your machine. Yes, because clearly all other encryption technologies are so vulnerable to theives and cops. There's only a pile of evidence of TrueCrypt and Bitlocker being quite effective in the field against both criminals and law enforcement agents. And that's not to mention SSD-based technologies which still allow for portability while mitigating some of the more theoretical attacks. > The data I care about I have (encrypted) backups of. Not having backups and hoping that a specific hardware failure will not affect my ability to restore is equivalent to, well, just not having backups to begin with. This is a good strategy, I too employ it with the majority of my important data, but it's just not realistic for normal people. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some scratch note or IDA database file that I'd be missing if I lost my desktop drive today...

duxup 8y ago

Unless they let you export the keys, difficult conversation time. I did some support for some encryption devices a long time ago. If someone was having that difficult conversation (you could just tell it was about to happen) we would all silently gather around to hear how it went...