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> Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... I got downvoted for posting this as a top-level comment, but it's insan

> Love the device but I can't get over how expensive it has gotten. A 20% price bump... I got downvoted for posting this as a top-level comment, but it's insane to me how Apple's hardware specs have stagnated while maintaining the same price. In 2014 I bought an entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1300. In 2018 I can buy the entry-level Macbook Pro with retina display, 2.3 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD, still for $1300. In 2018 I can also now buy an entry-level Macbook Air with retina display, 1.6 GHz i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD for $1200. I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm seriously considering making the jump to Linux rather than paying the same price for the same specs that were available 4.5 years ago.

jtbayly 8y ago
I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? And if you don't want to make that sacrifice, then there's probably something different about the device that Apple is assuming is worth ponying up for the upgrade for you. (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.)
- merb 8y ago
  > (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.) of course not, it's at least 4 years older. I mean that would not be fair to compare them. I have a Late 2013 Mbp 15" it was priced at ~2.200€ it was the "entry" model of the mbp 15" however if you look now the price is going to the roof. 2.799,00 € is the new price, of course the processor is now faster, there are 4 years in between (well clock speed is lower, but more cores). What else has changed? Of couse It lost it's sd slot, and also lost 256gb of ssd storage (if you want the same storage than the 2013 model you need to pay an increase of 240 €!) what did also change? the graphics card, it now is a radeon (and of course more clock speed, it's 4 years older. So how did the price changed: * Late 2013 15" MBP: ~2.200,00 € (cheapest) * Curr 2018 15" MBP: 2.799,00 € (cheapest) * 2018 15" MBP: 3.039,00 € (same storage space) that is totally unreasonable. The processor does not cost 600 € more (btw the i7-4850HQ costed roughly ~400€ hard to say since prices of that processor aren't well known, however the current mbp uses the i7-8750H which is actually priced officaly at 400 $, so should be less euro, but keep it 1:1 it would mean no increase) of course memory prices gone through the roof, but since that's the cheapest component that would justify a maximum of 100 €. SO tl;dr Late 2013 to Current with newer hardware for the same price means a increase of 839 € or 599 € (you can even remove 100€ and it wouldn't be ok) if you can take the storage hit. and all you get is a touchbar, which you probably might need or not.
  - jtbayly 8y ago
    Exactly! This is why I'm quite sympathetic. I just think it needs to be laid out like this to make it an effective point.
- flurrything 8y ago
  > I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? Why buy a new model at all? I have a fully-spec'ed macbook mid 2012 which costed 1600 EUR and has 512Gb HDD thanks to a 256Gb SD Card. Benchmark-wise, the macbook air 2018 is not 2x faster in any benchmark. Still a dual core, still 8Gb RAM, 128Gb without SD Card slot, etc. For a model with equivalent HDD I have to pay >2k EUR for the 16Gb RAM and 512 SSD. It's pretty impossible to justify upgrading from this 2012 model. That's 2000 EUR for a Retina display, and that's pretty much it. Throw in a 1 Tb SSD, 32 Gb RAM and a quad or six core, and upgrading might be worth it. But that would mean a macbook pro 2018 in the ~3k EUR range, which is a different price range and probably not worth paying given that these come without nvidia discreet graphics. With this product line, it makes much more sense for me to upgrade to a Dell than to another macbook.
dewiz 8y ago
sure Apple is expensive, but I think you're leaving out important details, like screen resolution, touchpad, keyboard (though that's been good for ages), OS improvements, power consumption, bluetooth and wifi, etc.
- malloryerik 8y ago
  I like the new keyboards well enough yet often turn to my 2014 Air for the soft and quiet typing.
- flurrything 8y ago
  > OS improvements, Mojave still works fine in a `2012` macbook air, which still does have >9h battery life (a new battery costs 60 EUR). The touchpad is great, and it has an SD Card reader that can be used to bump its 256Gb SSD with slow extra storage for cheap. So here I am, trying to find any reason that would justify upgrading a 2012 macbook air to a 2018 macbook air and the only thing that's worth it is the new display - sadly that's not worth > 2000 EUR.
asn0 8y ago
I've been considering that leap for years, fear of the effort to get to a non-annoying Linux laptop always drives me back to Mac. I finally took the dive on a PixelBook to try out, figured that at least the basics (battery, wireless, sound, video, command-line) should be less-likely to be an annoyance. However, at $1649 (16GB, i7 quad-core 1.3G, 512 SSD), it's not much of a savings over a reasonably-similar Mac config ($1799-1899).
IkmoIkmo 8y ago
I mean, I hear you and I agree (I wrote the post above you after all), pricing has been a bit tough. But since you asked, some additional background information comparing the 2014 $1300 Mac to today's $1300 Mac (which isn't a 2018 model, but rather the 2017 model and prices.) Geekbench 4 single/multicore scores are 30% and 42% faster respectively. The latter can do 4k resolution output. It's almost half a pound lighter, 0.2 inches thinner and about 0.3 inches less wide and less tall. Volume is more than 20% lower. You get an hour extra battery life. They're definitely not major, but it did get a bit better and with minor nominal salary increases the past few years (bit of inflation), it's effectively slightly cheaper, too. Not the sort of progress you'd hope for. But to say they're the same specs as 4.5 years ago isn't completely true, either. It's the 2017 model, 3 years after the 2014 model, a bit faster, smaller, lighter, better battery life at slightly cheaper dollars. It's underwhelming for sure, the moment we see a serious step up from that you see the price increase by $500. (The actual 2018 model is incomparably more expensive, but then the multicore score is 2.5x as fast as the 2014 model, twice as much SSD, 5k output resolution etc, but then it's $1800)
- cauthon 8y ago
  Fair. I don't think the actual processor matters much, I could have written "basic dual-core processor" to make my point. It's more frustrating that the entry-level RAM and storage options haven't increased at all in almost 5 years. To your points: I'd rather have the old form factor and weight, multiple hours extra battery life, and a usable set of ports. I compared the three entry-level laptops because I thought it was the most fair comparison, and because I knew the price of the 2014 equivalent. I'm actually looking for a model with 16 GB RAM and 256 or 512 GB SSD, and like you noted, that comes with a massive price gouge. I'd hope that at least the storage could have been upgraded on the base model over the last 4-5 years.
  - collinmanderson 8y ago
    I think currently extra ram eats into the extra battery life, and Apple's been trading less ram for more battery life.
kayoone 8y ago
The new CPUs are a couple of generations ahead and considerably faster and at the same time more efficient. Just looking at the clock speed does not make sense.
flurrything 8y ago
Dude, I bought a max spec'ed macbook air mid 2012 with 256Gb SSD + 256Gb SD Card, a dual core, and 8Gb of RAM, for ~1600 EUR in 2012. In 2018 I would have to pay 2000 EUR for 512Gb SSD, still a dual core, 16Gb of RAM that is only slightly more powerful than my mid 2012 machine (I haven't found benchmarks yet that manage to get a 2x difference) to the point where it is just not worth upgrading. If I were to upgrade it, I would throw 1500 EUR at Dell for a quad core, 32Gb RAM, and a 1TB SSD, maybe with nvidia discreet graphics. A similarly spec'ed macbook pro sets you at 3-4k EUR... The only people I can imagine buying macbooks in 2018 are those not paying for them themselves (company laptop) because for an individual they just don't make financial sense - one can get similarly spec'ed laptops for almost half the price.

jtbayly 8y ago

I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? And if you don't want to make that sacrifice, then there's probably something different about the device that Apple is assuming is worth ponying up for the upgrade for you. (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.)

merb 8y ago
> (For starters, despite the similar clock speed and processor names, the processors are not the same speed.) of course not, it's at least 4 years older. I mean that would not be fair to compare them. I have a Late 2013 Mbp 15" it was priced at ~2.200€ it was the "entry" model of the mbp 15" however if you look now the price is going to the roof. 2.799,00 € is the new price, of course the processor is now faster, there are 4 years in between (well clock speed is lower, but more cores). What else has changed? Of couse It lost it's sd slot, and also lost 256gb of ssd storage (if you want the same storage than the 2013 model you need to pay an increase of 240 €!) what did also change? the graphics card, it now is a radeon (and of course more clock speed, it's 4 years older. So how did the price changed: * Late 2013 15" MBP: ~2.200,00 € (cheapest) * Curr 2018 15" MBP: 2.799,00 € (cheapest) * 2018 15" MBP: 3.039,00 € (same storage space) that is totally unreasonable. The processor does not cost 600 € more (btw the i7-4850HQ costed roughly ~400€ hard to say since prices of that processor aren't well known, however the current mbp uses the i7-8750H which is actually priced officaly at 400 $, so should be less euro, but keep it 1:1 it would mean no increase) of course memory prices gone through the roof, but since that's the cheapest component that would justify a maximum of 100 €. SO tl;dr Late 2013 to Current with newer hardware for the same price means a increase of 839 € or 599 € (you can even remove 100€ and it wouldn't be ok) if you can take the storage hit. and all you get is a touchbar, which you probably might need or not.
- jtbayly 8y ago
  Exactly! This is why I'm quite sympathetic. I just think it needs to be laid out like this to make it an effective point.
flurrything 8y ago
> I'm sympathetic to the complaint about price, but if your contention is that the devices are basically unchanged, then why buy a 2018 model? Why not buy a 2014 model? Why buy a new model at all? I have a fully-spec'ed macbook mid 2012 which costed 1600 EUR and has 512Gb HDD thanks to a 256Gb SD Card. Benchmark-wise, the macbook air 2018 is not 2x faster in any benchmark. Still a dual core, still 8Gb RAM, 128Gb without SD Card slot, etc. For a model with equivalent HDD I have to pay >2k EUR for the 16Gb RAM and 512 SSD. It's pretty impossible to justify upgrading from this 2012 model. That's 2000 EUR for a Retina display, and that's pretty much it. Throw in a 1 Tb SSD, 32 Gb RAM and a quad or six core, and upgrading might be worth it. But that would mean a macbook pro 2018 in the ~3k EUR range, which is a different price range and probably not worth paying given that these come without nvidia discreet graphics. With this product line, it makes much more sense for me to upgrade to a Dell than to another macbook.

dewiz 8y ago

sure Apple is expensive, but I think you're leaving out important details, like screen resolution, touchpad, keyboard (though that's been good for ages), OS improvements, power consumption, bluetooth and wifi, etc.

malloryerik 8y ago
I like the new keyboards well enough yet often turn to my 2014 Air for the soft and quiet typing.
flurrything 8y ago
> OS improvements, Mojave still works fine in a `2012` macbook air, which still does have >9h battery life (a new battery costs 60 EUR). The touchpad is great, and it has an SD Card reader that can be used to bump its 256Gb SSD with slow extra storage for cheap. So here I am, trying to find any reason that would justify upgrading a 2012 macbook air to a 2018 macbook air and the only thing that's worth it is the new display - sadly that's not worth > 2000 EUR.

asn0 8y ago

I've been considering that leap for years, fear of the effort to get to a non-annoying Linux laptop always drives me back to Mac. I finally took the dive on a PixelBook to try out, figured that at least the basics (battery, wireless, sound, video, command-line) should be less-likely to be an annoyance. However, at $1649 (16GB, i7 quad-core 1.3G, 512 SSD), it's not much of a savings over a reasonably-similar Mac config ($1799-1899).

IkmoIkmo 8y ago

I mean, I hear you and I agree (I wrote the post above you after all), pricing has been a bit tough. But since you asked, some additional background information comparing the 2014 $1300 Mac to today's $1300 Mac (which isn't a 2018 model, but rather the 2017 model and prices.) Geekbench 4 single/multicore scores are 30% and 42% faster respectively. The latter can do 4k resolution output. It's almost half a pound lighter, 0.2 inches thinner and about 0.3 inches less wide and less tall. Volume is more than 20% lower. You get an hour extra battery life. They're definitely not major, but it did get a bit better and with minor nominal salary increases the past few years (bit of inflation), it's effectively slightly cheaper, too. Not the sort of progress you'd hope for. But to say they're the same specs as 4.5 years ago isn't completely true, either. It's the 2017 model, 3 years after the 2014 model, a bit faster, smaller, lighter, better battery life at slightly cheaper dollars. It's underwhelming for sure, the moment we see a serious step up from that you see the price increase by $500. (The actual 2018 model is incomparably more expensive, but then the multicore score is 2.5x as fast as the 2014 model, twice as much SSD, 5k output resolution etc, but then it's $1800)

cauthon 8y ago
Fair. I don't think the actual processor matters much, I could have written "basic dual-core processor" to make my point. It's more frustrating that the entry-level RAM and storage options haven't increased at all in almost 5 years. To your points: I'd rather have the old form factor and weight, multiple hours extra battery life, and a usable set of ports. I compared the three entry-level laptops because I thought it was the most fair comparison, and because I knew the price of the 2014 equivalent. I'm actually looking for a model with 16 GB RAM and 256 or 512 GB SSD, and like you noted, that comes with a massive price gouge. I'd hope that at least the storage could have been upgraded on the base model over the last 4-5 years.
- collinmanderson 8y ago
  I think currently extra ram eats into the extra battery life, and Apple's been trading less ram for more battery life.

kayoone 8y ago

The new CPUs are a couple of generations ahead and considerably faster and at the same time more efficient. Just looking at the clock speed does not make sense.

flurrything 8y ago

Dude, I bought a max spec'ed macbook air mid 2012 with 256Gb SSD + 256Gb SD Card, a dual core, and 8Gb of RAM, for ~1600 EUR in 2012. In 2018 I would have to pay 2000 EUR for 512Gb SSD, still a dual core, 16Gb of RAM that is only slightly more powerful than my mid 2012 machine (I haven't found benchmarks yet that manage to get a 2x difference) to the point where it is just not worth upgrading. If I were to upgrade it, I would throw 1500 EUR at Dell for a quad core, 32Gb RAM, and a 1TB SSD, maybe with nvidia discreet graphics. A similarly spec'ed macbook pro sets you at 3-4k EUR... The only people I can imagine buying macbooks in 2018 are those not paying for them themselves (company laptop) because for an individual they just don't make financial sense - one can get similarly spec'ed laptops for almost half the price.