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I have been using Ubuntu in a standard VM, VirtualBox and I have to strongly disagree with the simply works statement. At first I attempted to install Ubuntu on

by zohebv 16y ago

I have been using Ubuntu in a standard VM, VirtualBox and I have to strongly disagree with the simply works statement. At first I attempted to install Ubuntu on VirtualPC and it failed thanks to a keyboard driver issue, that had been first reported 6 months before and still wasn't fixed. I switched to VirtualBox and ever since, I have been struggling to maintain a resolution of 1650x1080 on Ubuntu, fighting with xrandr, cvt and xorg.conf all the time. Applying any kind of upgrade implies a strong possibility that my screen resolution will be set back to 800x600. I will admit that with the latest set of patches this month, I was able to fix my resolution back from 800x600 to 1650X1080 relatively painlessly , cvt, xrandr new, xrandr add, unlike previous occasions. However, the mouse integration with th host OS broke for some reason. I might need to re-install the drivers. A VirtualBox VM is fairly standard piece of virtual hardware and if Ubuntu can't deliver a decent experience on such a standard piece of hardware, it is hard to take statements like "it just works" seriously. Having said that the hassle free upgrade from version to version and the ease of use of apt-get is certainly unmatched on any other platform.

zohebv 16y ago
I can't believe it, I just booted my VM and the mouse driver fixed itself, but the resolution fell back to 800x600 yet again! And I hadn't even applied any patches!
vdm 16y ago
I agree completely. Installing Ubuntu server or desktop on Virtualbox/Windows was a 2-day nightmare the first time I did it (3 months ago), and reminds me of why I moved to Macs. Clearly this configuration is not being tested. If I can't install Ubuntu on Virtualbox, there is no way in hell I am going to buy a Thinkpad for Linux instead of a Mac and hope everything will 'simply work'.
- vetinari 16y ago
  Well, try installing Mac OSX in VirtualBox and you will see, what a nightmare really is.
vetinari 16y ago
The fighting and tinkering is your problem. You are fighting the wrong enemy. Virtual machines have their own ideas about graphic hardware, and by default they show generic VESA to guest. In the VMWare world, there is a "VMWare Guest Daemon", that combined with vmware driver adjusts the guest resolution according to VMWare settings (fit to window, etc). In VirtualBox world, there should be something similar. Quick googling shows, that VBoxLinuxAdditions provides custom display driver. Also note, that if a) you install guest tools without package manager and b) these guest tools do not support dkms (though VirtualBox should support it), then you will have rebuild kernel modules after each kernel upgrade! This may be your "integration broke for some reason, I need to re-install". Just use dkms and let the operating system worry about reinstalling drivers. Regarding VirtualPC, it is broken in it's own, special ways. Sometimes I wonder that it works at all. Microsoft does not support other guest systems than Windows.
- zohebv 16y ago
  > The fighting and tinkering is your problem. You are fighting the wrong enemy. Yes of course, it is my fault that the software I installed did not "just work" and reported the issues when someone claimed "it just works". Using one of the most popular open source VMs is just wrong! > Quick googling shows, that VBoxLinuxAdditions provides custom display driver. The first thing I do is install the custom drivers. It still does not update the available set of resolutions. And using xrandr etc too has been a hit or miss until recent updates. Infact the last set of helpful information about dealing with this issue is a Ubuntu forum discussion from 2006. > these guest tools do not support dkms So, it cannot be disputed that "Linux just works". Linux does not have built-in drivers for widespread hardware such as Virtualbox. And why do we need to rebuild kernel modules after every incremental monthly kernel revison. Certainly does not sound like "it just works". >Regarding VirtualPC, it is broken in it's own, special ways. The keyboard driver error was reported by users on real hardware. Not just VirtualPC. I just happened to run into the error on VirtualPC. Ubuntu did not pick up a fix for this for 6 months, when the Linux kernel mainline already had the fix 6 months ago. > Sometimes I wonder that it works at all. Microsoft does not support other guest systems than Windows. You are wrong. You seemed to have missed the entire fiasco around the Novell-Microsoft "partnership" around Virtualization. Saying that Ubuntu/Linux just works and if it doesn't it is the users fault, is plain misleading and completely misses the point of "it just works". Every piece of software "just works" if all non-working situations can be conveniently blamed on the user. I don't get the defensiveness around some particular piece of software.

by zohebv 16y ago

zohebv 16y ago

I can't believe it, I just booted my VM and the mouse driver fixed itself, but the resolution fell back to 800x600 yet again! And I hadn't even applied any patches!

vdm 16y ago

I agree completely. Installing Ubuntu server or desktop on Virtualbox/Windows was a 2-day nightmare the first time I did it (3 months ago), and reminds me of why I moved to Macs. Clearly this configuration is not being tested. If I can't install Ubuntu on Virtualbox, there is no way in hell I am going to buy a Thinkpad for Linux instead of a Mac and hope everything will 'simply work'.

vetinari 16y ago
Well, try installing Mac OSX in VirtualBox and you will see, what a nightmare really is.

vetinari 16y ago

The fighting and tinkering is your problem. You are fighting the wrong enemy. Virtual machines have their own ideas about graphic hardware, and by default they show generic VESA to guest. In the VMWare world, there is a "VMWare Guest Daemon", that combined with vmware driver adjusts the guest resolution according to VMWare settings (fit to window, etc). In VirtualBox world, there should be something similar. Quick googling shows, that VBoxLinuxAdditions provides custom display driver. Also note, that if a) you install guest tools without package manager and b) these guest tools do not support dkms (though VirtualBox should support it), then you will have rebuild kernel modules after each kernel upgrade! This may be your "integration broke for some reason, I need to re-install". Just use dkms and let the operating system worry about reinstalling drivers. Regarding VirtualPC, it is broken in it's own, special ways. Sometimes I wonder that it works at all. Microsoft does not support other guest systems than Windows.

zohebv 16y ago
> The fighting and tinkering is your problem. You are fighting the wrong enemy. Yes of course, it is my fault that the software I installed did not "just work" and reported the issues when someone claimed "it just works". Using one of the most popular open source VMs is just wrong! > Quick googling shows, that VBoxLinuxAdditions provides custom display driver. The first thing I do is install the custom drivers. It still does not update the available set of resolutions. And using xrandr etc too has been a hit or miss until recent updates. Infact the last set of helpful information about dealing with this issue is a Ubuntu forum discussion from 2006. > these guest tools do not support dkms So, it cannot be disputed that "Linux just works". Linux does not have built-in drivers for widespread hardware such as Virtualbox. And why do we need to rebuild kernel modules after every incremental monthly kernel revison. Certainly does not sound like "it just works". >Regarding VirtualPC, it is broken in it's own, special ways. The keyboard driver error was reported by users on real hardware. Not just VirtualPC. I just happened to run into the error on VirtualPC. Ubuntu did not pick up a fix for this for 6 months, when the Linux kernel mainline already had the fix 6 months ago. > Sometimes I wonder that it works at all. Microsoft does not support other guest systems than Windows. You are wrong. You seemed to have missed the entire fiasco around the Novell-Microsoft "partnership" around Virtualization. Saying that Ubuntu/Linux just works and if it doesn't it is the users fault, is plain misleading and completely misses the point of "it just works". Every piece of software "just works" if all non-working situations can be conveniently blamed on the user. I don't get the defensiveness around some particular piece of software.