3 ms·

I am at this very moment switching from Fedora 29 ( I was on the early Beta) to Ubuntu because of the acquisition by IBM. It just doesn't sit right with me. Jus

by adevx 8y ago

I am at this very moment switching from Fedora 29 ( I was on the early Beta) to Ubuntu because of the acquisition by IBM. It just doesn't sit right with me. Just made the last backup before plugging in the USB with Ubuntu 18.10.

mprev 8y ago
I find these knee jerk reactions fascinating. What about IBM do you know that makes you feel this way? What about Red Hat made you happy to continue using Fedora? What about Canonical makes you consider Ubuntu to be better for your purposes? This feels like the equivalent of switching from cow's milk to almond milk for ethical reasons. There's not an improvement, you're just making a different set of compromises.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Yeah, have no dog in the race, but was surprised by all the negativity toward IBM yesterday. I don't have nearly the bad feelings towards them that I do say MS or Oracle. Also they've supported Linux a lot, at least ten years ago, unsure if that continues. Basically they exited from all the markets I cared about in recent years and became a non-entity, meh.
  - izacus 8y ago
    I guess there's just a lot of us around who had exceedingly terrible experience with anything IBM.
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      After a bit of thought remembered the recent episode where they fired their old-timers, that's a negative.
  - rnd0 8y ago
    > unsure if that continues. This. This is what is behind the so-called negativity. IBM has been an exemplary open source citizen; but it's very fragmented with conflicting internal fiefdoms which means no one can count on them continuing to be supportive. People are reacting to the scale of the merger, the stakes involved for the community at large (GCC, etc) and what happens with most large mergers and they're very anxious. And not without very good reason...
- zaphirplane 8y ago
  People using Linux likely have jobs that have brought them in touch (or read) with a negative IBM experience. Off shore IT, out sourced development, large consult and build projects. Then are projecting that onto how redhat will become
  - narwally 8y ago
    Not to mention all of us that have had great experiences with Red Hat, and have a hard time seeing their culture surviving more than a few years under IBM. I'd be sad to see anyone acquire Red Hat because they seemed to be thriving and are a great blueprint for what open source can look like in the corporate world. I don't have any personal animosity for IBM, but I loved Red Hat and wanted to see them keep going without having to worry about the influence of a parent company.
bubblethink 8y ago
Bravo! Just the sort of rational and engineering driven thinking that linux represents.
- adevx 8y ago
  To be honest, I was already considering the switch. Mainly because I have production servers on Ubuntu and having the same dev environment as the server makes sense. Regardless, if possible I still like to align myself with companies I feel passionate about, IBM is no such company.
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  I'm probably going to do the same thing. I have F29 beta on my laptop messing around with it, but I'm at a point I like what works, and Ubuntu works(TM). A lot less fiddling. Their GUnity desktop in 18.10 looks usable (though I like KDE 5.14). I have no reason to like IBM. My vantage point from elsewhere in IT Ops is that they are as license-batty and money-grubbing as Oracle, coasting on the market share they've had for decades on the mainframe. This proves they've been beaten by commodity cloud, and they're buying it out. Oracle destroyed Sun, Solaris, Java, and MySQL is only still relevant because it was such a popular open source project (vs. the other ones) that it had momentum. Even then, Postgres got a lot more attention, and MariaDB was spawned from MySQL's creators as a fork. If I don't really have a dog in the running with Fedora/CentOS/Red Hat, why would I dig into it now, unless my job required it? Ubuntu is just as good. I don't wish ill to Fedora, and recognize that a lot of good has come from RHAT/Fedora ecosystem. I personally just choose to stick with an ecosystem I know, particularly now that Fedora is in danger.
  - rkangel 8y ago
    Interesting. I moved from Fedora to Ubuntu because I found Fedora "Just Works(TM)" a lot more of the time. The hardware support out of the box was much better, that packages were more up to date and the whole system was more stable.
russdpale 8y ago
Why? Ubuntu had ads and telemetry built right in ala Windows. You should look at manjero.
- O_H_E 8y ago
  sending telemetry data is optional and I believe it is opt-in instead of opt-out, plus it can be fully disabled
  - pfranz 8y ago
    I'm surprised people put up with the Amazon integration. Like Windows has been forever (first third-party junk vendors would add, now telemetry and advertising), I feel like I have to spend 30m "cleaning up" a fresh install before I can start installing the stuff I want. I'm skeptical about the IBM purchase, but like with a lot of big changes I'm just keeping my radar up before I jump ship.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jniedrauer 8y ago
Canonical is not really "better" than IBM. You're jumping out of the pot and into the fire.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  I don't understand how anybody could make a comment like this. Canonical has made some mistakes that the community has rightly called them out for, and sometimes they make decisions that we don't agree with, but in the end they open source everything important. Compared to the old Red Hat they're far from perfect, but compared to IBM, Microsoft, Google, Amazon or Oracle or any other closed source software company they are fricking angels.
  - dralley 8y ago
    Disclaimer: Red Hat employee That's not entirely fair. Canonical has almost zero kernel contributions, while IBM is the #4 top corporate contributor. And Canonical keeps some "important" things proprietary, like the server code behind Snaps.
    - bryanlarsen 8y ago
      As I said, the old Red Hat was a much better corporate citizen than Canonical is. I hope the new Red Hat ends up doing a "reverse takeover" of IBM. Kernel contributions are a really bad metric, they're like 1% of a distribution and get lots of attention. IBM isn't an Nvidia, but they're not a Red Hat or Canonical either.

by adevx 8y ago

mprev 8y ago

I find these knee jerk reactions fascinating. What about IBM do you know that makes you feel this way? What about Red Hat made you happy to continue using Fedora? What about Canonical makes you consider Ubuntu to be better for your purposes? This feels like the equivalent of switching from cow's milk to almond milk for ethical reasons. There's not an improvement, you're just making a different set of compromises.

mixmastamyk 8y ago
Yeah, have no dog in the race, but was surprised by all the negativity toward IBM yesterday. I don't have nearly the bad feelings towards them that I do say MS or Oracle. Also they've supported Linux a lot, at least ten years ago, unsure if that continues. Basically they exited from all the markets I cared about in recent years and became a non-entity, meh.
- izacus 8y ago
  I guess there's just a lot of us around who had exceedingly terrible experience with anything IBM.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    After a bit of thought remembered the recent episode where they fired their old-timers, that's a negative.
- rnd0 8y ago
  > unsure if that continues. This. This is what is behind the so-called negativity. IBM has been an exemplary open source citizen; but it's very fragmented with conflicting internal fiefdoms which means no one can count on them continuing to be supportive. People are reacting to the scale of the merger, the stakes involved for the community at large (GCC, etc) and what happens with most large mergers and they're very anxious. And not without very good reason...
zaphirplane 8y ago
People using Linux likely have jobs that have brought them in touch (or read) with a negative IBM experience. Off shore IT, out sourced development, large consult and build projects. Then are projecting that onto how redhat will become
- narwally 8y ago
  Not to mention all of us that have had great experiences with Red Hat, and have a hard time seeing their culture surviving more than a few years under IBM. I'd be sad to see anyone acquire Red Hat because they seemed to be thriving and are a great blueprint for what open source can look like in the corporate world. I don't have any personal animosity for IBM, but I loved Red Hat and wanted to see them keep going without having to worry about the influence of a parent company.

bubblethink 8y ago

Bravo! Just the sort of rational and engineering driven thinking that linux represents.

adevx 8y ago
To be honest, I was already considering the switch. Mainly because I have production servers on Ubuntu and having the same dev environment as the server makes sense. Regardless, if possible I still like to align myself with companies I feel passionate about, IBM is no such company.
unethical_ban 8y ago
I'm probably going to do the same thing. I have F29 beta on my laptop messing around with it, but I'm at a point I like what works, and Ubuntu works(TM). A lot less fiddling. Their GUnity desktop in 18.10 looks usable (though I like KDE 5.14). I have no reason to like IBM. My vantage point from elsewhere in IT Ops is that they are as license-batty and money-grubbing as Oracle, coasting on the market share they've had for decades on the mainframe. This proves they've been beaten by commodity cloud, and they're buying it out. Oracle destroyed Sun, Solaris, Java, and MySQL is only still relevant because it was such a popular open source project (vs. the other ones) that it had momentum. Even then, Postgres got a lot more attention, and MariaDB was spawned from MySQL's creators as a fork. If I don't really have a dog in the running with Fedora/CentOS/Red Hat, why would I dig into it now, unless my job required it? Ubuntu is just as good. I don't wish ill to Fedora, and recognize that a lot of good has come from RHAT/Fedora ecosystem. I personally just choose to stick with an ecosystem I know, particularly now that Fedora is in danger.
- rkangel 8y ago
  Interesting. I moved from Fedora to Ubuntu because I found Fedora "Just Works(TM)" a lot more of the time. The hardware support out of the box was much better, that packages were more up to date and the whole system was more stable.

russdpale 8y ago

Why? Ubuntu had ads and telemetry built right in ala Windows. You should look at manjero.

O_H_E 8y ago
sending telemetry data is optional and I believe it is opt-in instead of opt-out, plus it can be fully disabled
- pfranz 8y ago
  I'm surprised people put up with the Amazon integration. Like Windows has been forever (first third-party junk vendors would add, now telemetry and advertising), I feel like I have to spend 30m "cleaning up" a fresh install before I can start installing the stuff I want. I'm skeptical about the IBM purchase, but like with a lot of big changes I'm just keeping my radar up before I jump ship.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jniedrauer 8y ago

Canonical is not really "better" than IBM. You're jumping out of the pot and into the fire.

bryanlarsen 8y ago
I don't understand how anybody could make a comment like this. Canonical has made some mistakes that the community has rightly called them out for, and sometimes they make decisions that we don't agree with, but in the end they open source everything important. Compared to the old Red Hat they're far from perfect, but compared to IBM, Microsoft, Google, Amazon or Oracle or any other closed source software company they are fricking angels.
- dralley 8y ago
  Disclaimer: Red Hat employee That's not entirely fair. Canonical has almost zero kernel contributions, while IBM is the #4 top corporate contributor. And Canonical keeps some "important" things proprietary, like the server code behind Snaps.
  - bryanlarsen 8y ago
    As I said, the old Red Hat was a much better corporate citizen than Canonical is. I hope the new Red Hat ends up doing a "reverse takeover" of IBM. Kernel contributions are a really bad metric, they're like 1% of a distribution and get lots of attention. IBM isn't an Nvidia, but they're not a Red Hat or Canonical either.