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Fair enough. Have your motte and bailey. You said (verbatim) : "Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable o

by kalenx 8y ago

Fair enough. Have your motte and bailey. You said (verbatim) : "Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem" True, you did not define "standard". Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics, or crime rate, or whatever other interpretation. Sure, but you were definitely not talking about the ability to cook a Thanksgiving turkey. If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. > When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism. No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. Because you have no reasoning backing that other than "they're black, so there could not be any other reason explaining the lower IQ". Same thing for crime rate. Crime rate is a fact, not racist in itself. But facts do not make discussions. No one brings a fact just to leave it there. You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist.

deialtrous 8y ago
>Have your motte and bailey. I do not. You don't get to pretend I said something else and then call me dishonest when I point out what I actually said. >Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics I did not attack anyone. >If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. I am sorry it was unclear. Not every miscommunication is deliberate, try to assume good faith. I have since clarified, is there something you still are unclear about? >No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. No it is not. It is a statement of objective fact. When you control for every other conceivable factor, you are still left with a very large gap that can only be explained by genetics. And now recently, we have identified a number of genes that directly correlate to IQ, and their prevalence varies with race just as would be expected. >You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist. It can be, but it is not. Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. This means the standard argument that black arrest rate is high due to white racism is not a given. This is the comparison I was making. The belief that racism is the cause of problems is not supported by evidence, and in fact those people pushing that view cause racial tension, conflict and violence by ignoring objective reality and pushing unreasonable demands like that black people have population proportional representation in high IQ positions.
- kalenx 8y ago
  Here is just one of your incorrect inference : > Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. Where is the causality here? Sure, there is a correlation and sure, it may be seen as a reasonable argument, but like your point before about CO2 not being a problem, you completely overlook that there could be many causes for the same event. How is your fact about crime rates invalidating the position "there is racism amongst police forces"? The effect of the higher crime rates _and_ racism are not mutually exclusive. But you choose to rather adopt a point of view where every situation can apparently be 100% explained by a single cause. And that cause is that black people are not "up the standard" -- whatever standard you are talking about. Yup, that's racism.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  try to assume good faith That is something you conspicuously failed to do dozens of times on this page. The other person is always missing the point, didn't read what you said, falling victim to one myth or another, disingenuous, irrelevant, fixating, making absolutely no sense, slipping in thing at the end after the red herrings, seem eager to put words in your mouth ... It makes for super-tiresome reading. This is not a productive method of communication. (That was you complaining about the other guy yet again.) Please consider that you are just one person among many on here, and that you may seem as ignorant, misguided, irrational, unfair, impossible-to-argue-with, prejudiced to them as they apparently seem to you. And please be more considerate in future. Be civil. Don't be snarky.

by kalenx 8y ago

deialtrous 8y ago

>Have your motte and bailey. I do not. You don't get to pretend I said something else and then call me dishonest when I point out what I actually said. >Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics I did not attack anyone. >If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. I am sorry it was unclear. Not every miscommunication is deliberate, try to assume good faith. I have since clarified, is there something you still are unclear about? >No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. No it is not. It is a statement of objective fact. When you control for every other conceivable factor, you are still left with a very large gap that can only be explained by genetics. And now recently, we have identified a number of genes that directly correlate to IQ, and their prevalence varies with race just as would be expected. >You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist. It can be, but it is not. Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. This means the standard argument that black arrest rate is high due to white racism is not a given. This is the comparison I was making. The belief that racism is the cause of problems is not supported by evidence, and in fact those people pushing that view cause racial tension, conflict and violence by ignoring objective reality and pushing unreasonable demands like that black people have population proportional representation in high IQ positions.

kalenx 8y ago
Here is just one of your incorrect inference : > Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. Where is the causality here? Sure, there is a correlation and sure, it may be seen as a reasonable argument, but like your point before about CO2 not being a problem, you completely overlook that there could be many causes for the same event. How is your fact about crime rates invalidating the position "there is racism amongst police forces"? The effect of the higher crime rates _and_ racism are not mutually exclusive. But you choose to rather adopt a point of view where every situation can apparently be 100% explained by a single cause. And that cause is that black people are not "up the standard" -- whatever standard you are talking about. Yup, that's racism.
yesenadam 8y ago
try to assume good faith That is something you conspicuously failed to do dozens of times on this page. The other person is always missing the point, didn't read what you said, falling victim to one myth or another, disingenuous, irrelevant, fixating, making absolutely no sense, slipping in thing at the end after the red herrings, seem eager to put words in your mouth ... It makes for super-tiresome reading. This is not a productive method of communication. (That was you complaining about the other guy yet again.) Please consider that you are just one person among many on here, and that you may seem as ignorant, misguided, irrational, unfair, impossible-to-argue-with, prejudiced to them as they apparently seem to you. And please be more considerate in future. Be civil. Don't be snarky.