8 ms·

I just wish Apple would put the internals of the iPad Pro into the Apple TV and bundle it with a decent controller. The gaming potential is massive, and they ev

I just wish Apple would put the internals of the iPad Pro into the Apple TV and bundle it with a decent controller. The gaming potential is massive, and they even compared it to the Xbox One during the keynote. They are squandering a massive market opportunity - I just can't work out why.

saagarjha 8y ago
Apple did that when Apple TV 4K came out: it has an A10X chip in it.
- ascagnel_ 8y ago
  It lacks a controller, though. And the "best" controller is missing three inputs you'd expect (L3/R3 "stick click" buttons and a select button).
  - GiorgioG 8y ago
    What's this missing besides the 'select' button: https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus
    - eropple 8y ago
      To be frank? An Apple logo. Third-party stuff isn't sufficiently sticky. If Apple wants games on their platform, they need their own controller. It might even be best if it comes in the box. I don't, however, think they really care that much.
      - GiorgioG 8y ago
        I don't buy that the logo alone would do it. It would have to come bundled with a controller by default and all games would have to work with said controller.
        freehunter 8y ago
        Games compatibility is key. I had an Android phone I used years back with a PS3 controller and an external display to play Modern Combat 3 and it worked great as a game console... except every now and again the game forced you to swipe the screen to perform some quicktime action. Really unexpected when you're sitting 5 feet from the screen.
      - emdowling 8y ago
        It absolutely needs to come in the box for it to be effective. You need to be able to rely on 100% of your customer base having the hardware required to play it. The thought that they don't care that much is really strange, because every single keynote that I can remember has included game demos. They always use game demos, from AAA game developers like Epic, to come out and show off the latest capabilities. They could take a sizeable chunk of PS4 and Xbox One customers very easily - fund the development of some genuinely AAA, exclusive games, bundle the controller in the box and the thing would sell like hotcakes. Nintendo is somewhat safe because their IP is much more valuable than Xbox or Sony, who basically offer the same games with a few notable exceptions.
  - minimaxir 8y ago
    The controllers like the Steelseries Nimbus follow the Made for iPhone spec, which is why they're limited.
    - ascagnel_ 8y ago
      I want to say there's a new revision of the MFI controller spec, but nobody's put out hardware under it as of yet.
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    I don't think gamers necessarily expect an L3/R3 button. The Switch does not have anything like that, and Nintendo has always been top tier for gaming controllers.
    - ajmurmann 8y ago
      Nintendo also has a long history of missing out on many cross-platform titles.
    - gambiting 8y ago
      Switch has L3/R3 buttons(you can click the analog sticks) and games do use them(sprint in Fortnite for example is L3). Even the WiiU Pro controller had clickable sticks.
    - ssully 8y ago
      Nintendo has historically terrible controllers which started with the N64 controller. That didn't end until the pro controller for the Wii U/Switch. Even the switch joycons, which I think are incredibly impressive with how much tech is crammed into them, are pretty awful to actually control with. The only reason I think they get a break is because they are designed for portability.
    - ascagnel_ 8y ago
      I've been tinkering with some commits to get the Moonlight project working on tvOS, and the biggest stumbling block to many of the games I could play with a controller is the lack of L3/R3 buttons. Sprint, look behind, crouch, take cover, melee, etc. all get mapped to these buttons pretty frequently, since your thumb is generally resting on at least on of those sticks during normal play.
- emdowling 8y ago
  Did they really expect gaming to take off by not including a controller?
e_modad 8y ago
That's a good question. Do you think Steve's opinion on gaming is still baked into the company?
- bunnycorn 8y ago
  Steve Jobs wasn't anti-gaming. The only moment he was anti-gaming was when he was trying to sell $2500 Macintoshes and battling IBM PC's, when IBM was applying FUD against Apple, calling their computers "toys".
macintux 8y ago
I haven't given it a great deal of thought, but I'd wager Apple doesn't want to risk developers prioritizing the controller/TV experience over touch/iPad. Much like Apple feels that the touch interface is a different beast than trackpad/mouse, and combining them would be a mistake.
projectramo 8y ago
Wouldn't that be the Mac Mini?
izacus 8y ago
Here's the thing - it's not the hardware. iPad can be hugely powerful and it won't get good games until those games start paying revenue. As long as 4,99$ is the standard price for a game, you can't expect studios to just port the games for potential loss. Especially since iPad with its 799$+ price tag isn't really an affordable device in comparison to game consoles. Compare this with Nintendo Switch - it's significantly less powerful than a few modern iPad generations. But it's also more affordable and Nintendo deliberately keeps the full-price game culture alive. Because of that, they have actual game library to offer to customers.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  For a long time Apple's problem was a lack of software on their platform. I wonder if they have gone too far now and by encouraging so many developers they have ended up lowering the standards. To me the huge amount of low cost junk in the App Store doesn't feel right next to the high quality expensive products Apple sells.
  - zeroname 8y ago
    > To me the huge amount of low cost junk in the App Store doesn't feel right next to the high quality expensive products Apple sells. It might have something to do with all the entitled customers (children?) that will review anything that costs five dollars or more as "a ripoff", unless maybe the game is literally Minecraft.
    - Karunamon 8y ago
      That's terribly unfair. When the mobile ecosystem settles ~$5 as the price for full-featured apps, with .99 as the price for one-off toys and smaller tools, someone bucking the trend and charging multiple times that for apps that are not meaningfully higher quality than the rest of the charging-five-bucks ecosystem will rightly be judged by the average consumer as overpriced. That's not "entitlement", that's violation of perfectly reasonable expectations. Don't blame or denigrate the customer for aligning their expectations to what the rest of the marketplace does.
astral303 8y ago
I’m enjoying plenty of gaming on my Apple TV, so unless we are talking hardcore AAA titles, there is plenty to keep yourself entertained. It is a far less frustrating game console to use than PS/XBox. It’s actually really nice. I bought a controller for $50 to play Minecraft. It’s not bundled (that’s a good thing).
- Camillo 8y ago
  Well, good thing you got your Minecraft in time, because they're dropping support for the Apple TV.
013a 8y ago
They compared an $800 tablet to a $250 gaming console. The A12x is pretty awesome, but its one of the dumbest comparisons Apple has ever made.
remir 8y ago
Seems like the market is going in the direction of streaming (think 5-10+ years in the future). Having a powerful console is becoming less and less important.

saagarjha 8y ago

Apple did that when Apple TV 4K came out: it has an A10X chip in it.

ascagnel_ 8y ago
It lacks a controller, though. And the "best" controller is missing three inputs you'd expect (L3/R3 "stick click" buttons and a select button).
- GiorgioG 8y ago
  What's this missing besides the 'select' button: https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus https://steelseries.com/gaming-controllers/nimbus
  - eropple 8y ago
    To be frank? An Apple logo. Third-party stuff isn't sufficiently sticky. If Apple wants games on their platform, they need their own controller. It might even be best if it comes in the box. I don't, however, think they really care that much.
    - GiorgioG 8y ago
      I don't buy that the logo alone would do it. It would have to come bundled with a controller by default and all games would have to work with said controller.
      - freehunter 8y ago
        Games compatibility is key. I had an Android phone I used years back with a PS3 controller and an external display to play Modern Combat 3 and it worked great as a game console... except every now and again the game forced you to swipe the screen to perform some quicktime action. Really unexpected when you're sitting 5 feet from the screen.
    - emdowling 8y ago
      It absolutely needs to come in the box for it to be effective. You need to be able to rely on 100% of your customer base having the hardware required to play it. The thought that they don't care that much is really strange, because every single keynote that I can remember has included game demos. They always use game demos, from AAA game developers like Epic, to come out and show off the latest capabilities. They could take a sizeable chunk of PS4 and Xbox One customers very easily - fund the development of some genuinely AAA, exclusive games, bundle the controller in the box and the thing would sell like hotcakes. Nintendo is somewhat safe because their IP is much more valuable than Xbox or Sony, who basically offer the same games with a few notable exceptions.
- minimaxir 8y ago
  The controllers like the Steelseries Nimbus follow the Made for iPhone spec, which is why they're limited.
  - ascagnel_ 8y ago
    I want to say there's a new revision of the MFI controller spec, but nobody's put out hardware under it as of yet.
- Bahamut 8y ago
  I don't think gamers necessarily expect an L3/R3 button. The Switch does not have anything like that, and Nintendo has always been top tier for gaming controllers.
  - ajmurmann 8y ago
    Nintendo also has a long history of missing out on many cross-platform titles.
  - gambiting 8y ago
    Switch has L3/R3 buttons(you can click the analog sticks) and games do use them(sprint in Fortnite for example is L3). Even the WiiU Pro controller had clickable sticks.
  - ssully 8y ago
    Nintendo has historically terrible controllers which started with the N64 controller. That didn't end until the pro controller for the Wii U/Switch. Even the switch joycons, which I think are incredibly impressive with how much tech is crammed into them, are pretty awful to actually control with. The only reason I think they get a break is because they are designed for portability.
  - ascagnel_ 8y ago
    I've been tinkering with some commits to get the Moonlight project working on tvOS, and the biggest stumbling block to many of the games I could play with a controller is the lack of L3/R3 buttons. Sprint, look behind, crouch, take cover, melee, etc. all get mapped to these buttons pretty frequently, since your thumb is generally resting on at least on of those sticks during normal play.
emdowling 8y ago
Did they really expect gaming to take off by not including a controller?

e_modad 8y ago

That's a good question. Do you think Steve's opinion on gaming is still baked into the company?

bunnycorn 8y ago
Steve Jobs wasn't anti-gaming. The only moment he was anti-gaming was when he was trying to sell $2500 Macintoshes and battling IBM PC's, when IBM was applying FUD against Apple, calling their computers "toys".

macintux 8y ago

I haven't given it a great deal of thought, but I'd wager Apple doesn't want to risk developers prioritizing the controller/TV experience over touch/iPad. Much like Apple feels that the touch interface is a different beast than trackpad/mouse, and combining them would be a mistake.

projectramo 8y ago

Wouldn't that be the Mac Mini?

izacus 8y ago

Here's the thing - it's not the hardware. iPad can be hugely powerful and it won't get good games until those games start paying revenue. As long as 4,99$ is the standard price for a game, you can't expect studios to just port the games for potential loss. Especially since iPad with its 799$+ price tag isn't really an affordable device in comparison to game consoles. Compare this with Nintendo Switch - it's significantly less powerful than a few modern iPad generations. But it's also more affordable and Nintendo deliberately keeps the full-price game culture alive. Because of that, they have actual game library to offer to customers.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
For a long time Apple's problem was a lack of software on their platform. I wonder if they have gone too far now and by encouraging so many developers they have ended up lowering the standards. To me the huge amount of low cost junk in the App Store doesn't feel right next to the high quality expensive products Apple sells.
- zeroname 8y ago
  > To me the huge amount of low cost junk in the App Store doesn't feel right next to the high quality expensive products Apple sells. It might have something to do with all the entitled customers (children?) that will review anything that costs five dollars or more as "a ripoff", unless maybe the game is literally Minecraft.
  - Karunamon 8y ago
    That's terribly unfair. When the mobile ecosystem settles ~$5 as the price for full-featured apps, with .99 as the price for one-off toys and smaller tools, someone bucking the trend and charging multiple times that for apps that are not meaningfully higher quality than the rest of the charging-five-bucks ecosystem will rightly be judged by the average consumer as overpriced. That's not "entitlement", that's violation of perfectly reasonable expectations. Don't blame or denigrate the customer for aligning their expectations to what the rest of the marketplace does.

astral303 8y ago

I’m enjoying plenty of gaming on my Apple TV, so unless we are talking hardcore AAA titles, there is plenty to keep yourself entertained. It is a far less frustrating game console to use than PS/XBox. It’s actually really nice. I bought a controller for $50 to play Minecraft. It’s not bundled (that’s a good thing).

Camillo 8y ago
Well, good thing you got your Minecraft in time, because they're dropping support for the Apple TV.

013a 8y ago

They compared an $800 tablet to a $250 gaming console. The A12x is pretty awesome, but its one of the dumbest comparisons Apple has ever made.

remir 8y ago

Seems like the market is going in the direction of streaming (think 5-10+ years in the future). Having a powerful console is becoming less and less important.