4 ms·

You plainly said that black people are genetically incapable of being held to the same ethical standards of white people. Come on dude, get out of here.

deialtrous 8y ago
No I did not. Read the statement carefully, the word "ethical" was added in your mind, it isn't in the statement I made. Black people have lower IQs. Expecting them to have population proportional representation in universities, medical professions, etc is holding them to a standard they can not achieve, through no fault of their own, and it causes serious racial animosity and conflict. This is a real problem. There is no indication that the "problems" proponents of the "racism as the root of all evil" belief keep bringing up are actually real.
- kalenx 8y ago
  Again, this is plain racism. This is the precise definition of judging a group of people solely based on their race. Refuse to see that things like IQs and crime rate can be affected by so much factors than race if you must. Say "black people exhibit higher crime rate, so it must be genetic" while overlook the mere spurious correlation behind it, but at least acknowledge it. You are racist.
  - deialtrous 8y ago
    >This is the precise definition of judging a group of people solely based on their race. No it is not. Racism is judging individuals based on their race. When someone assumes a specific black person has a low IQ because they are black, that is racism. When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism. >Refuse to see that things like IQs and crime rate can be affected by so much factors than race if you must. I did not say they are not affected by other factors. One of the factors is race. This is objective reality, your feelings do not change it. Correct for everything you can imagine, and you are still left with this reality. IQ is very heavily heritable, and different races evolved differently with different pressures, causing differences in racial IQ. Ignoring this reality and demanding that a nation with 15% black people have 15% of their doctors be black is harmful, not helpful. >Say "black people exhibit higher crime rate, so it must be genetic" I did not say it. You sure seem eager to put words in my mouth. If I am such a horrible racist, surely you don't need to invent things to pretend I said. You should be able to stick to the things I actually said.
    - kalenx 8y ago
      Fair enough. Have your motte and bailey. You said (verbatim) : "Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem" True, you did not define "standard". Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics, or crime rate, or whatever other interpretation. Sure, but you were definitely not talking about the ability to cook a Thanksgiving turkey. If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. > When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism. No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. Because you have no reasoning backing that other than "they're black, so there could not be any other reason explaining the lower IQ". Same thing for crime rate. Crime rate is a fact, not racist in itself. But facts do not make discussions. No one brings a fact just to leave it there. You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist.
      - deialtrous 8y ago
        >Have your motte and bailey. I do not. You don't get to pretend I said something else and then call me dishonest when I point out what I actually said. >Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics I did not attack anyone. >If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. I am sorry it was unclear. Not every miscommunication is deliberate, try to assume good faith. I have since clarified, is there something you still are unclear about? >No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. No it is not. It is a statement of objective fact. When you control for every other conceivable factor, you are still left with a very large gap that can only be explained by genetics. And now recently, we have identified a number of genes that directly correlate to IQ, and their prevalence varies with race just as would be expected. >You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist. It can be, but it is not. Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. This means the standard argument that black arrest rate is high due to white racism is not a given. This is the comparison I was making. The belief that racism is the cause of problems is not supported by evidence, and in fact those people pushing that view cause racial tension, conflict and violence by ignoring objective reality and pushing unreasonable demands like that black people have population proportional representation in high IQ positions.
- lifeformed 8y ago
  "Ethical" was added as a clarification, since you were talking about crime.

deialtrous 8y ago

No I did not. Read the statement carefully, the word "ethical" was added in your mind, it isn't in the statement I made. Black people have lower IQs. Expecting them to have population proportional representation in universities, medical professions, etc is holding them to a standard they can not achieve, through no fault of their own, and it causes serious racial animosity and conflict. This is a real problem. There is no indication that the "problems" proponents of the "racism as the root of all evil" belief keep bringing up are actually real.

kalenx 8y ago
Again, this is plain racism. This is the precise definition of judging a group of people solely based on their race. Refuse to see that things like IQs and crime rate can be affected by so much factors than race if you must. Say "black people exhibit higher crime rate, so it must be genetic" while overlook the mere spurious correlation behind it, but at least acknowledge it. You are racist.
- deialtrous 8y ago
  >This is the precise definition of judging a group of people solely based on their race. No it is not. Racism is judging individuals based on their race. When someone assumes a specific black person has a low IQ because they are black, that is racism. When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism. >Refuse to see that things like IQs and crime rate can be affected by so much factors than race if you must. I did not say they are not affected by other factors. One of the factors is race. This is objective reality, your feelings do not change it. Correct for everything you can imagine, and you are still left with this reality. IQ is very heavily heritable, and different races evolved differently with different pressures, causing differences in racial IQ. Ignoring this reality and demanding that a nation with 15% black people have 15% of their doctors be black is harmful, not helpful. >Say "black people exhibit higher crime rate, so it must be genetic" I did not say it. You sure seem eager to put words in my mouth. If I am such a horrible racist, surely you don't need to invent things to pretend I said. You should be able to stick to the things I actually said.
  - kalenx 8y ago
    Fair enough. Have your motte and bailey. You said (verbatim) : "Holding black people to the same standard as white people when they are genetically incapable of meeting that standard seems like a much bigger problem" True, you did not define "standard". Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics, or crime rate, or whatever other interpretation. Sure, but you were definitely not talking about the ability to cook a Thanksgiving turkey. If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. > When someone states the objective fact that black people have lower IQs than whites or Asians, that is not racism. No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. Because you have no reasoning backing that other than "they're black, so there could not be any other reason explaining the lower IQ". Same thing for crime rate. Crime rate is a fact, not racist in itself. But facts do not make discussions. No one brings a fact just to leave it there. You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist.
    - deialtrous 8y ago
      >Have your motte and bailey. I do not. You don't get to pretend I said something else and then call me dishonest when I point out what I actually said. >Then you attack people when they infer you're talking about ethics I did not attack anyone. >If you do not want your writings to be open to interpretation, then be specific. I am sorry it was unclear. Not every miscommunication is deliberate, try to assume good faith. I have since clarified, is there something you still are unclear about? >No, but saying that this is because of their genetic is. No it is not. It is a statement of objective fact. When you control for every other conceivable factor, you are still left with a very large gap that can only be explained by genetics. And now recently, we have identified a number of genes that directly correlate to IQ, and their prevalence varies with race just as would be expected. >You bring it to back up an opinion. And this opinion can definitely be racist. It can be, but it is not. Black crime rate being high explains black arrest rate being high. This means the standard argument that black arrest rate is high due to white racism is not a given. This is the comparison I was making. The belief that racism is the cause of problems is not supported by evidence, and in fact those people pushing that view cause racial tension, conflict and violence by ignoring objective reality and pushing unreasonable demands like that black people have population proportional representation in high IQ positions.
lifeformed 8y ago
"Ethical" was added as a clarification, since you were talking about crime.