5 ms·

You could take another method of transport instead of a plane. Bus, train, bike, boat

InitialLastName 8y ago
Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Why?
  - moate 8y ago
    Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD. Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 104 hours, or just over 4 days each way. And again, you make $804 USD/year. Is OP's example helpful to the conversation: IDK, possibly? But the idea that it's reasonable for a tourist might be a bit much. IDK, who am I to say what's reasonable for people who make less in a year than I do in about 3 days. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25.0572731,-7.2468776,4z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x10d139a540e83b23:0x61dbd8f01bc61c6e!2m2!1d20.6481794!2d8.4101505!1m5!1m1!1s0x477eb1daf1d63d89:0x7ba3c6f0bd92102f!2m2!1d12.3155151!2d45.4408474!3e2 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25....
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Momentary inconveniences of todays technology and productivity. In our lifetime we will see people go to space with private funds, that not the wealthiest person on earth could have achieved 50 years ago.
      - moate 8y ago
        Sure. Cool story. How are you getting that guy from the CAR to Venice using one of the methods you mentioned in a reasonable way? I'll wait while you address the actual line of conversation I was involved in instead of making up sci fi stories about how cool 2050 is going to be.
        learc83 8y ago
        Not the OP, but wasn't the purpose of this a thought experiment in whether or not it is possible to increase the global standard of living. If so then of course we are talking about what's theoretically possible in a hypothetical future. I don't think anyone was making the claim that it was reasonable to get the average person from CAR to Venice today.
        conanbatt 8y ago
        If your point is how to get one guy today that makes 800 dollars a month with a car from where he is in central africa to venice and allow for a middle-class tourist vacation, the answer is 'its impossible'. What a narrow point that is! Useless to make any decision whatsoever.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - ant6n 8y ago
      You're using today's economy and infrastructure to make an argument of the inherent impossibility of using alternative modes of transport to flying in an argument about a possible future where everybody is rich enough to be a tourist. ...Consider that you can travel from Moscow to Beijing on a single train (or Paris-Beijing with a single transfer), it seems that traveling long distances by rail aren't inherently impossible.
      - moate 8y ago
        >>NegativeLatency 4 hours ago You could take another method of transport instead of a plane. Bus, train, bike, boat >>InitialLastName 4 hours ago | Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice. >>onanbatt 2 hours ago Why? No I wasn't. I was answering "why" in this response chain. That's a whole other conversation going on elsewhere.
908087 8y ago
Cruise ships are already an environmental nightmare. We don't need more of that.

Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice.

conanbatt 8y ago
Why?
- moate 8y ago
  Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD. Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 104 hours, or just over 4 days each way. And again, you make $804 USD/year. Is OP's example helpful to the conversation: IDK, possibly? But the idea that it's reasonable for a tourist might be a bit much. IDK, who am I to say what's reasonable for people who make less in a year than I do in about 3 days. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25.0572731,-7.2468776,4z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x10d139a540e83b23:0x61dbd8f01bc61c6e!2m2!1d20.6481794!2d8.4101505!1m5!1m1!1s0x477eb1daf1d63d89:0x7ba3c6f0bd92102f!2m2!1d12.3155151!2d45.4408474!3e2 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25....
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Momentary inconveniences of todays technology and productivity. In our lifetime we will see people go to space with private funds, that not the wealthiest person on earth could have achieved 50 years ago.
    - moate 8y ago
      Sure. Cool story. How are you getting that guy from the CAR to Venice using one of the methods you mentioned in a reasonable way? I'll wait while you address the actual line of conversation I was involved in instead of making up sci fi stories about how cool 2050 is going to be.
      - learc83 8y ago
        Not the OP, but wasn't the purpose of this a thought experiment in whether or not it is possible to increase the global standard of living. If so then of course we are talking about what's theoretically possible in a hypothetical future. I don't think anyone was making the claim that it was reasonable to get the average person from CAR to Venice today.
      - conanbatt 8y ago
        If your point is how to get one guy today that makes 800 dollars a month with a car from where he is in central africa to venice and allow for a middle-class tourist vacation, the answer is 'its impossible'. What a narrow point that is! Useless to make any decision whatsoever.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - ant6n 8y ago
    You're using today's economy and infrastructure to make an argument of the inherent impossibility of using alternative modes of transport to flying in an argument about a possible future where everybody is rich enough to be a tourist. ...Consider that you can travel from Moscow to Beijing on a single train (or Paris-Beijing with a single transfer), it seems that traveling long distances by rail aren't inherently impossible.
    - moate 8y ago
      >>NegativeLatency 4 hours ago You could take another method of transport instead of a plane. Bus, train, bike, boat >>InitialLastName 4 hours ago | Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice. >>onanbatt 2 hours ago Why? No I wasn't. I was answering "why" in this response chain. That's a whole other conversation going on elsewhere.

908087 8y ago

Cruise ships are already an environmental nightmare. We don't need more of that.