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Everyone's got to work harder in the west so we can get back to dominating the earth such that we can impose our scientific value system on the superstitious he

Everyone's got to work harder in the west so we can get back to dominating the earth such that we can impose our scientific value system on the superstitious heathen. /s All you guys going around saying Chinese traditional medicine is worthless are like all the diplomats flying in to Israel saying that the conflict with the Palestinians is just a land dispute and has nothing to do with religion. You don't believe in anyone's values but your own. Yeah, I like Rhinos and Tigers and if I had a button that said make sure I can keep seeing rhinos and tigers when I go to the zoo once a year, I'd push it, but if they disappeared my world and the world of most people would be largely unaffected except for watching t.v documentaries about it happening in countries I will never travel to. That's what majorly weirds me out about some animal rights issues. None of this stuff will ever have an impact on your day to day life ever, yet people care so intensely about it. How did we come to intensely value Tigers and Rhinos even though our only interaction with them throughout our life is a couple of minutes during occasional visits to the zoo?

mikeash 8y ago
The worth of traditional Chinese medicine isn’t a matter of values. It’s a simple factual question with a simple answer.
- ElBarto 8y ago
  There's a lot of interests in the plants and fungi, or even some animal extracts, used in traditional Chinese medicine because they often do contain active chemicals that may be used. It's like traditional remedies in the West: The plants used usually really do have medicinal properties. (I'm not saying that a rhino horn has any useful properties, though...) Edit: What's wrong, guys?
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    Once a plant, fungus or animal extract is proven to work (or a compound isolated from it, and that proven to work) it is no longer "traditional medicine". It is simply "medicine". There is no evidence of any use for tiger penis or rhino horn.
    - ElBarto 8y ago
      > There is no evidence of any use for tiger penis or rhino horn. I made it clear that I didn't think there was. You guys need to calm down and put the pitchforks away.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        Why should we put the pitchforks away? The stuff that works isn't traditional medicine, and at best traditional medicine harms people by keeping them away from actual treatment. Its role in driving tigers and rhinos closer to extinction is merely a more obvious, albeit less serious, example of the problems it causes.
        ElBarto 8y ago
        > Why should we put the pitchforks away? Lynch away. It's easier than thinking.
      - Symbiote 8y ago
        It's not clear whether you're arguing against applying the scientific method to TCM, or perhaps overstating the effectiveness of it. (I'm not downmodding you; I can't on replies to my own comments.)
- narrator 8y ago
  The worth of Israel as a sovereign religiously defined nation isn't a mater of values either. It's just a bunch of old fake stories that people use to avoid resolving a property dispute that is just a simple matter for lawyers at the U.N. /s
natmaka 8y ago
It may be a way to express discontent and distrust upon our civilization, to preserve whatever is "Wild and Beautiful", or to save ourselves (as in The Roots of Heaven).
Nursie 8y ago
> All you guys going around saying Chinese traditional medicine is worthless are like Sorry this is nonsense. Medicine either works or doesn't. TCM is woo writ large. This isn't about value systems, it's about evidence, it's about scams and fraud preying on ignorance. > if they disappeared my world and the world of most people would be largely unaffected And as the number of species of wild animal on the planet ticks down to zero, this is the sort of complacency that will say "well it's been fine so far, I still have my Brawndo"
- narrator 8y ago
  >And as the number of species of wild animal on the planet ticks down to zero, this is the sort of complacency that will say "well it's been fine so far, I still have my Brawndo" Rhino and Tigers could be raised as livestock for their valuable whatever, but people seem to be even more opposed to that than letting wild animals go extinct. That's the spiritual part of it. The value of wild animal life for its own sake is taken as an absolute value.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    The existence of wildlife and its part in maintaining the wider ecosystem is its own value. Jaysus.
vixen99 8y ago
You know nothing about my day to day life so please stop making massive assumptions & generalizations about people who read HN.

mikeash 8y ago

The worth of traditional Chinese medicine isn’t a matter of values. It’s a simple factual question with a simple answer.

ElBarto 8y ago
There's a lot of interests in the plants and fungi, or even some animal extracts, used in traditional Chinese medicine because they often do contain active chemicals that may be used. It's like traditional remedies in the West: The plants used usually really do have medicinal properties. (I'm not saying that a rhino horn has any useful properties, though...) Edit: What's wrong, guys?
- Symbiote 8y ago
  Once a plant, fungus or animal extract is proven to work (or a compound isolated from it, and that proven to work) it is no longer "traditional medicine". It is simply "medicine". There is no evidence of any use for tiger penis or rhino horn.
  - ElBarto 8y ago
    > There is no evidence of any use for tiger penis or rhino horn. I made it clear that I didn't think there was. You guys need to calm down and put the pitchforks away.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      Why should we put the pitchforks away? The stuff that works isn't traditional medicine, and at best traditional medicine harms people by keeping them away from actual treatment. Its role in driving tigers and rhinos closer to extinction is merely a more obvious, albeit less serious, example of the problems it causes.
      - ElBarto 8y ago
        > Why should we put the pitchforks away? Lynch away. It's easier than thinking.
    - Symbiote 8y ago
      It's not clear whether you're arguing against applying the scientific method to TCM, or perhaps overstating the effectiveness of it. (I'm not downmodding you; I can't on replies to my own comments.)
narrator 8y ago
The worth of Israel as a sovereign religiously defined nation isn't a mater of values either. It's just a bunch of old fake stories that people use to avoid resolving a property dispute that is just a simple matter for lawyers at the U.N. /s

natmaka 8y ago

It may be a way to express discontent and distrust upon our civilization, to preserve whatever is "Wild and Beautiful", or to save ourselves (as in The Roots of Heaven).

Nursie 8y ago

> All you guys going around saying Chinese traditional medicine is worthless are like Sorry this is nonsense. Medicine either works or doesn't. TCM is woo writ large. This isn't about value systems, it's about evidence, it's about scams and fraud preying on ignorance. > if they disappeared my world and the world of most people would be largely unaffected And as the number of species of wild animal on the planet ticks down to zero, this is the sort of complacency that will say "well it's been fine so far, I still have my Brawndo"

narrator 8y ago
>And as the number of species of wild animal on the planet ticks down to zero, this is the sort of complacency that will say "well it's been fine so far, I still have my Brawndo" Rhino and Tigers could be raised as livestock for their valuable whatever, but people seem to be even more opposed to that than letting wild animals go extinct. That's the spiritual part of it. The value of wild animal life for its own sake is taken as an absolute value.
- Nursie 8y ago
  The existence of wildlife and its part in maintaining the wider ecosystem is its own value. Jaysus.

vixen99 8y ago

You know nothing about my day to day life so please stop making massive assumptions & generalizations about people who read HN.