5 ms·

This view of things doesnt take into account that an absurdly higher number of people can travel and see multiple countries in their life, which was impossible

This view of things doesnt take into account that an absurdly higher number of people can travel and see multiple countries in their life, which was impossible 50 years ago. It is absolutely possible for every earth citizen to become a tourist, there is no economic impediment to do it.

collyw 8y ago
He talked about environmental issues, not economic ones.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Environmental issues are economic issues.
  - pyrale 8y ago
    A totalitarian ideology is one that tries to creep into every aspect of our life, and rejects the exploration of alternative models.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Okay.
    - arbitrary_name 8y ago
      Capitalism has crept into every aspect of my life. I cannot leave my house without people trying to put ideas into my head. I am not free, because of property rights, and there are many laws to prevent me from behaving in c certain ways. I cannot sustain myself from gathering food, because the capitalists have harvested the fish and cut down the trees. Your freedom is a prison. Don't talk to me about totalitarianism.
      - collyw 8y ago
        While what you say is true is seems less bad than the alternatives.
      - pyrale 8y ago
        You seem to have misread me. Which ideology do you think I was criricizing ?
esotericn 8y ago
I believe that I covered this in my comment. > We either eliminate these experiences, accept economic inequality, or watch the experiences be eliminated via attrition (e.g. cars devolving into gridlock, tourism devolving into queues and displacement, ...). Specifically, the last part. If everyone is a tourist, what it means to be a tourist is very, very different. Consider: We strictly have enough jet fuel and aluminium and so on to fly everyone about all over. What happens if we actually do that? Venice is bloody underwater, that's what. That said - I'm an optimistic physicist and engineer. Let's fix this, shall we? Right, I've invented and scaled electric aeroplanes and fusion power. Let's try again. What happens if we actually do that? Venice has more tourists than people. Bugger.
- NegativeLatency 8y ago
  You could take another method of transport instead of a plane. Bus, train, bike, boat
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Why?
      - moate 8y ago
        Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD. Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 104 hours, or just over 4 days each way. And again, you make $804 USD/year. Is OP's example helpful to the conversation: IDK, possibly? But the idea that it's reasonable for a tourist might be a bit much. IDK, who am I to say what's reasonable for people who make less in a year than I do in about 3 days. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25.0572731,-7.2468776,4z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x10d139a540e83b23:0x61dbd8f01bc61c6e!2m2!1d20.6481794!2d8.4101505!1m5!1m1!1s0x477eb1daf1d63d89:0x7ba3c6f0bd92102f!2m2!1d12.3155151!2d45.4408474!3e2 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25....

collyw 8y ago

He talked about environmental issues, not economic ones.

conanbatt 8y ago
Environmental issues are economic issues.
- pyrale 8y ago
  A totalitarian ideology is one that tries to creep into every aspect of our life, and rejects the exploration of alternative models.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Okay.
  - arbitrary_name 8y ago
    Capitalism has crept into every aspect of my life. I cannot leave my house without people trying to put ideas into my head. I am not free, because of property rights, and there are many laws to prevent me from behaving in c certain ways. I cannot sustain myself from gathering food, because the capitalists have harvested the fish and cut down the trees. Your freedom is a prison. Don't talk to me about totalitarianism.
    - collyw 8y ago
      While what you say is true is seems less bad than the alternatives.
    - pyrale 8y ago
      You seem to have misread me. Which ideology do you think I was criricizing ?

esotericn 8y ago

I believe that I covered this in my comment. > We either eliminate these experiences, accept economic inequality, or watch the experiences be eliminated via attrition (e.g. cars devolving into gridlock, tourism devolving into queues and displacement, ...). Specifically, the last part. If everyone is a tourist, what it means to be a tourist is very, very different. Consider: We strictly have enough jet fuel and aluminium and so on to fly everyone about all over. What happens if we actually do that? Venice is bloody underwater, that's what. That said - I'm an optimistic physicist and engineer. Let's fix this, shall we? Right, I've invented and scaled electric aeroplanes and fusion power. Let's try again. What happens if we actually do that? Venice has more tourists than people. Bugger.

NegativeLatency 8y ago
You could take another method of transport instead of a plane. Bus, train, bike, boat
- InitialLastName 8y ago
  Pretty much none of those things will make it reasonable for someone from, say, Central African Republic to visit Venice.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Why?
    - moate 8y ago
      Let's assume you're from N'Délé, in the North Central portion of the country. Let's also assume you've got twice the national average in wealth, or about $800 USD. Which of those methods is "reasonable" for you to use as a tourist. The bike is clearly out. You can take a ferry across the Mediterranean once you get to it, but that's a whole thing. There is no train and buses would be...a lot. A straight car ride is 104 hours, or just over 4 days each way. And again, you make $804 USD/year. Is OP's example helpful to the conversation: IDK, possibly? But the idea that it's reasonable for a tourist might be a bit much. IDK, who am I to say what's reasonable for people who make less in a year than I do in about 3 days. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25.0572731,-7.2468776,4z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x10d139a540e83b23:0x61dbd8f01bc61c6e!2m2!1d20.6481794!2d8.4101505!1m5!1m1!1s0x477eb1daf1d63d89:0x7ba3c6f0bd92102f!2m2!1d12.3155151!2d45.4408474!3e2 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/n'd%C3%A9l%C3%A9/venice/@25....