6 ms·

What you should wonder is if this model is desirable in any term.

by ronilan 8y ago

maxxxxx 8y ago
From what I have heard from people living there most people seem OK with it.
- jplayer01 8y ago
  But...but freedom. It's aggravating to see how many Americans think individual freedom should absolutely and automatically trump every other concern.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    It's aggravating to see how many people regardless of nationality would willingly trade away their freedom for some temporary gain and encourage others to do likewise. The next government can lay off all the litter picker-uppers but you won't get your freedom back in return.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Singapore has a net migration rate of 13.1 migrant(s)/1,000 population where the US only has 2.86 suggesting may more people find it an attractive destination than an area to escape from. Some parts of the US restrict which color you can paint your house. That might seem like a huge negative for some, but plenty of people are fine with this tradeoff becase they care more for restricting the colors of others than they care about maintaining their personal freedom at any cost. Expanding that to a wide range of similar issues may seem draconian, but it’s not without benifit. Which IMO is why Singapore does not have a mass exodus.
    - CPLX 8y ago
      There’s more than one kind of freedom. Sometimes I might seek the freedom to do whatever the hell I want. Sometimes I might seek the freedom to not have to experience you doing whatever the hell you want.
    - jplayer01 8y ago
      Temporary gain? You mean improved quality of life? Hmmm. Let's see where the US ranks on any relevant metric compared to Singapore.
  - echevil 8y ago
    I lived in Singapore for six years and then San Francisco for almost six years now, but seriously, I don’t feel US is any more “free” in any tangible ways. Maybe there are more “freedom” defined by laws in US but certainly not something that normal people will miss in daily lives. Also over focusing on “individual” freedom apparently won’t always align with the interest of the entire society and could eventually bring down the average happiness of individuals.
    - jplayer01 8y ago
      I agree. It's usually conservatives who use freedom as an excuse to argue against universal health care or to keep their guns. Instead, you're free to be bankrupted by medical bills, which I don't think is a better state of things.
  - brownbat 8y ago
    One can raise an eyebrow at a clean city that uses corporal punishment for visa overstays and the death penalty for drug offenses without being a radical libertarian.
- mkstowegnv 8y ago
  All over the world there are testosterone poisoned males engaging in as much obnoxious behavior as they can get away with (e.g. riding motorcycles with no mufflers). Particulary coming from the Southern US it is absolutely delightful to be in a place where "rednecks" are completley suppressed.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    Then move? I like my motorcycle and my testosterone. Thanks for male shaming. Edit. Thanks for the downvotes for pointing out literal bigotry. Wtf hn.
    - whoadude73fuf 8y ago
      Seriously... I was very surprised at this response; I get the feeling the author would take great offense at being called an estrogen chugging pseudo-male / individuals who want to live far away from people like the author... despite the rhetoric being roughly the same. It's also disproportionately antagonistic of other's choices given the conversation at hand.
  - dang 8y ago
    Please keep this kind of flamebait far away from HN.
- tom_ 8y ago
  People that aren’t ok with it probably move away, or never move there in the first place. (But this is in principle self-balancing, so even if the people that live there are unrepresentative, perhaps it doesn’t matter.)
  - jnaina 8y ago
    It's a full-on capitalistic, paternalistic, walled garden sort of society with some restrictions (strict gun and drug control, limited free speech, etc). If you want complete freedom (right to bear arms, shoot up drugs, spout any manner of speech, etc) Singapore is not for you. But if you are looking for safety, rule of law, good place to make money as a knowledge worker, and can tolerate some trade-offs in terms of freedom, it is a great place.
dang 8y ago
Generic ideological tangents are off topic on HN. You can't get much more generic (or ideological) than freedom-good-or-bad. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236.
- ronilan 8y ago
  @dang - I don’t understand. A: “X seems to have positive utility. I wonder if it is sustainable long term.” B: “You should wonder if your utility function is suitable for any term.” How is it ideological? P.S - I never heard the term “idiological tangents” before. According to Google you are the only one using it. I’d say that’s a Wofelooperga.

What you should wonder is if this model is desirable in any term.

maxxxxx 8y ago

From what I have heard from people living there most people seem OK with it.

jplayer01 8y ago
But...but freedom. It's aggravating to see how many Americans think individual freedom should absolutely and automatically trump every other concern.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  It's aggravating to see how many people regardless of nationality would willingly trade away their freedom for some temporary gain and encourage others to do likewise. The next government can lay off all the litter picker-uppers but you won't get your freedom back in return.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Singapore has a net migration rate of 13.1 migrant(s)/1,000 population where the US only has 2.86 suggesting may more people find it an attractive destination than an area to escape from. Some parts of the US restrict which color you can paint your house. That might seem like a huge negative for some, but plenty of people are fine with this tradeoff becase they care more for restricting the colors of others than they care about maintaining their personal freedom at any cost. Expanding that to a wide range of similar issues may seem draconian, but it’s not without benifit. Which IMO is why Singapore does not have a mass exodus.
  - CPLX 8y ago
    There’s more than one kind of freedom. Sometimes I might seek the freedom to do whatever the hell I want. Sometimes I might seek the freedom to not have to experience you doing whatever the hell you want.
  - jplayer01 8y ago
    Temporary gain? You mean improved quality of life? Hmmm. Let's see where the US ranks on any relevant metric compared to Singapore.
- echevil 8y ago
  I lived in Singapore for six years and then San Francisco for almost six years now, but seriously, I don’t feel US is any more “free” in any tangible ways. Maybe there are more “freedom” defined by laws in US but certainly not something that normal people will miss in daily lives. Also over focusing on “individual” freedom apparently won’t always align with the interest of the entire society and could eventually bring down the average happiness of individuals.
  - jplayer01 8y ago
    I agree. It's usually conservatives who use freedom as an excuse to argue against universal health care or to keep their guns. Instead, you're free to be bankrupted by medical bills, which I don't think is a better state of things.
- brownbat 8y ago
  One can raise an eyebrow at a clean city that uses corporal punishment for visa overstays and the death penalty for drug offenses without being a radical libertarian.
mkstowegnv 8y ago
All over the world there are testosterone poisoned males engaging in as much obnoxious behavior as they can get away with (e.g. riding motorcycles with no mufflers). Particulary coming from the Southern US it is absolutely delightful to be in a place where "rednecks" are completley suppressed.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Then move? I like my motorcycle and my testosterone. Thanks for male shaming. Edit. Thanks for the downvotes for pointing out literal bigotry. Wtf hn.
  - whoadude73fuf 8y ago
    Seriously... I was very surprised at this response; I get the feeling the author would take great offense at being called an estrogen chugging pseudo-male / individuals who want to live far away from people like the author... despite the rhetoric being roughly the same. It's also disproportionately antagonistic of other's choices given the conversation at hand.
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep this kind of flamebait far away from HN.
tom_ 8y ago
People that aren’t ok with it probably move away, or never move there in the first place. (But this is in principle self-balancing, so even if the people that live there are unrepresentative, perhaps it doesn’t matter.)
- jnaina 8y ago
  It's a full-on capitalistic, paternalistic, walled garden sort of society with some restrictions (strict gun and drug control, limited free speech, etc). If you want complete freedom (right to bear arms, shoot up drugs, spout any manner of speech, etc) Singapore is not for you. But if you are looking for safety, rule of law, good place to make money as a knowledge worker, and can tolerate some trade-offs in terms of freedom, it is a great place.

dang 8y ago

Generic ideological tangents are off topic on HN. You can't get much more generic (or ideological) than freedom-good-or-bad. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333236.

ronilan 8y ago
@dang - I don’t understand. A: “X seems to have positive utility. I wonder if it is sustainable long term.” B: “You should wonder if your utility function is suitable for any term.” How is it ideological? P.S - I never heard the term “idiological tangents” before. According to Google you are the only one using it. I’d say that’s a Wofelooperga.