3 ms·

This is batshit insane. There’s exactly one thing a middleman company like this is supposed to be useful for, which is facilitating the transaction and standin

by CPLX 8y ago

This is batshit insane. There’s exactly one thing a middleman company like this is supposed to be useful for, which is facilitating the transaction and standing behind it. I have no idea why anyone is defending this company, their policy is obviously unethical unless they have very visible clear disclaimers equal in weight to their other communications saying they aren’t responsible for the renter stealing from you. In which case it’s just a dumb business model.

danShumway 8y ago
This. The best interpretation of this situation where KitSplit hasn't done anything dishonest still looks really bad for them. At the point where you're already worrying about all of these details, why would you use KitSplit instead of just opening your own business and posting classifieds? I ran into this with a photo company my parents used to use (Snapfish, no reason not to name them). My Mom called me up one night and said that some of her older photos wouldn't load any more. Did some debugging, contacted support, apparently the photos had just vanished during a database migration one day. They gave me the same excuse -- "our service isn't meant to be used for backups and we don't guarantee any reliability." This is not something that they ever make clear in any advertising, but whatever. Thankfully I had my own backups of her computer, and afterwards I told her to stop using the service. My reasoning was, "even assuming that they weren't dishonest, you're left with a pretty crappy service that doesn't do anything." It's like buying a battery that doesn't guarantee that it will transmit power. So the best case scenario for KitSplit that they want us to take away from this is... they're just a slightly fancier Ebay? Not a good advertisement.
wpietri 8y ago
Absolutely. KitSplit is being foolish. KitSplit is by far best placed to manage the risk here, given that they have the data, the time, and the incentive. They saved themselves $2500 by not paying out on a theft, but bought themselves a lot more bad publicity. I'm so tired of startups with a "heads we win, tails you lose" set of policies. If they can't make the economics work while being honest, the solution is not to bury, "sorry, you're fucked" down in some obscure policy file.
united893 8y ago
If KitSplit wanted to pursue this, they could just sue for the unpaid rental at the daily rate. E.g: at $95/day after two months, KitSplit can sue the customer in civil court for $5700 in unpaid rental fees. Likely they're just overwhelmed with all kinds of crazy things going on and are short on cash to follow up. I don't believe them when they say this is not illegal. Here's the statue in NY: This is unambiguously a crime. > https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/165.00 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/165.00 > NEW YORK CONSOLIDATED LAW SERVICE PENAL LAW PART THREE. SPECIFIC OFFENSES TITLE J. OFFENSES INVOLVING THEFT ARTICLE 165. OTHER OFFENSES RELATING TO THEFT > § 165.00. Misapplication of property > 1. A person is guilty of misapplication of property when, knowingly possessing personal property of another pursuant to an agreement that the same will be returned to the owner at a future time ... (b) he intentionally refuses to return personal property valued in excess of one hundred dollars to the owner pursuant to the terms of the rental agreement provided ... While the victim is in NY, dev is in LA. So if NYPD were to call LAPD, he can be charged there as well with Larceny: > https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=484.&lawCode=PEN https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... > Part 1. Crimes and Punishments Title 13. Crimes Against Property Chapter 5. Larceny § 484. > ... a person has leased or rented the personal property of another person pursuant to a written contract, and that property has a value greater than one thousand dollars ($1,000) and is not a commonly used household item, intent to commit theft by fraud shall be rebuttably presumed if the person fails to return the personal property to its owner within 10 days after the owner has made written demand by certified or registered mail following the expiration of the lease or rental agreement for return of the property so leased or rented ... So all the victim has to do is send certified mail requesting the property to be returned. Otherwise the renter gets charged.

by CPLX 8y ago

danShumway 8y ago

This. The best interpretation of this situation where KitSplit hasn't done anything dishonest still looks really bad for them. At the point where you're already worrying about all of these details, why would you use KitSplit instead of just opening your own business and posting classifieds? I ran into this with a photo company my parents used to use (Snapfish, no reason not to name them). My Mom called me up one night and said that some of her older photos wouldn't load any more. Did some debugging, contacted support, apparently the photos had just vanished during a database migration one day. They gave me the same excuse -- "our service isn't meant to be used for backups and we don't guarantee any reliability." This is not something that they ever make clear in any advertising, but whatever. Thankfully I had my own backups of her computer, and afterwards I told her to stop using the service. My reasoning was, "even assuming that they weren't dishonest, you're left with a pretty crappy service that doesn't do anything." It's like buying a battery that doesn't guarantee that it will transmit power. So the best case scenario for KitSplit that they want us to take away from this is... they're just a slightly fancier Ebay? Not a good advertisement.

wpietri 8y ago

Absolutely. KitSplit is being foolish. KitSplit is by far best placed to manage the risk here, given that they have the data, the time, and the incentive. They saved themselves $2500 by not paying out on a theft, but bought themselves a lot more bad publicity. I'm so tired of startups with a "heads we win, tails you lose" set of policies. If they can't make the economics work while being honest, the solution is not to bury, "sorry, you're fucked" down in some obscure policy file.

united893 8y ago

If KitSplit wanted to pursue this, they could just sue for the unpaid rental at the daily rate. E.g: at $95/day after two months, KitSplit can sue the customer in civil court for $5700 in unpaid rental fees. Likely they're just overwhelmed with all kinds of crazy things going on and are short on cash to follow up. I don't believe them when they say this is not illegal. Here's the statue in NY: This is unambiguously a crime. > https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/165.00 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/165.00 > NEW YORK CONSOLIDATED LAW SERVICE PENAL LAW PART THREE. SPECIFIC OFFENSES TITLE J. OFFENSES INVOLVING THEFT ARTICLE 165. OTHER OFFENSES RELATING TO THEFT > § 165.00. Misapplication of property > 1. A person is guilty of misapplication of property when, knowingly possessing personal property of another pursuant to an agreement that the same will be returned to the owner at a future time ... (b) he intentionally refuses to return personal property valued in excess of one hundred dollars to the owner pursuant to the terms of the rental agreement provided ... While the victim is in NY, dev is in LA. So if NYPD were to call LAPD, he can be charged there as well with Larceny: > https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=484.&lawCode=PEN https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... > Part 1. Crimes and Punishments Title 13. Crimes Against Property Chapter 5. Larceny § 484. > ... a person has leased or rented the personal property of another person pursuant to a written contract, and that property has a value greater than one thousand dollars ($1,000) and is not a commonly used household item, intent to commit theft by fraud shall be rebuttably presumed if the person fails to return the personal property to its owner within 10 days after the owner has made written demand by certified or registered mail following the expiration of the lease or rental agreement for return of the property so leased or rented ... So all the victim has to do is send certified mail requesting the property to be returned. Otherwise the renter gets charged.