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My observation is that elites tend towards keeping around multiple forms of mutual blackmail in their pockets so that they stay in a cease-fire arrangement: e.g
by jungler 8y ago
My observation is that elites tend towards keeping around multiple forms of mutual blackmail in their pockets so that they stay in a cease-fire arrangement: e.g. all the conspiracy/cult stories where everyone is made an equal participant in some crime or disturbing ritual.
This allows them to avoid simply killing each other(too risky) while still allowing credible threats to power, and gatekeeping contenders who won't play by the same rules. "Civil" society is an expression that alludes to making that ruleset ethically responsible and cooling down the competition. It's tested constantly by anyone who wants to get ahead.
The behavior is everywhere once you look: If you have a poorly regulated sport, match fixing, cheating, dangerous play, and exclusionary collusion all become rampant. If you have a labor force with few protections and high competition, they start to climb over each other to pump up their image. And when organized crime structures break down, violence erupts.
Democratic structures, coalition-building, collective bargaining, and other tactics that negotiate rights and protections solve most of these issues temporarily, at least until a majority are satisfied enough to stop participating, by which time someone ambitious will have found a new angle for changing the rules.
If it feels like this era is more unstable or more violent, it's because there are some very broad changes hitting. Disruption worked.
- majos 8y agoThis is your observation about elites, or your theory? Saying that you've regularly observed elites keeping blackmail on each other in their pockets seems...deserving of elaboration.
- jungler 8y agoWell, if I had observed all of it, I would be implicated, wouldn't I? Most of the material comes second-hand. It's not hard to open up a biography of a powerful figure and dissect it.
- hodgesrm 8y agoIt seems more likely that at certain times elites have found they have more in common with each other than the lower classes even across religious or ethnic boundaries. This was certainly true for at least part of the Middle Ages. As Saladin famously said to Guy of Lusignan, "kings do not kill kings." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_of_Lusignan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_of_Lusignan
- hammock 8y agoIt's not just "elites" (or I'm not clear on what you mean by that). For example, if you're a cop around dirty cops it's not enough just to not be a snitch. If you are around dirty business they will force you to accept bribes so you are in on the mutually assured destruction. See also gangs, etc.
- Plyphon_ 8y agoPablo Escobar famously employed this tactic - you we're either on his payroll and accepted his cash or you were killed. "plata o plomo" - "silver or lead".
- cafard 8y agoSome rather limited parts of the Middle Ages, perhaps. The Burgundians and Valois were pretty hard on each other.
- hodgesrm 8y agoIt depends on the location and time. In the great English victories of the Hundred Years War many ordinary soldiers were killed whereas the French nobility were often spared. It did not hurt that the latter could pay fat ransoms, of course.
- hodgesrm 8y agop.s., I'm reading up on the Burgundians. They do seem like a bloodthirsty lot. Thanks for pointing them out.
- coldtea 8y ago>As Saladin famously said to Guy of Lusignan, "kings do not kill kings." And yet, most kings were killed by other kings or elite wannabe kings.
- erikb 8y agoYes, but it's wrong. Kings kill(-ed) kings all the time. For instance check out what the Saudis are doing these months. That makes it a big question, why it's not happening more often then they can reproduce. And it's not like they are writing on their own wikipedia page "hey, I, prince Saudi XYZ don't kill Saddam Hussein's nephew because <reason>". So of course it's some guessing involved. And I have yet to see a more convincing one than that they have dirt on each other. It makes a lot of sense. And while you might think that getting killed is worse than getting bad press or going to jail, for them it means losing power, and that's all they have. So let's not get too romantic here and try to discuss the facts. If you have a really good reason they don't kill each other more often, then let's hear it. But morals or an "understanding" can't be it.
- coldtea 8y agoHave a study at legal cases of elites. Just the things proved in courts. You'll get a good idea about how the world works without fearing you're a "conspiracist". Do it for a place like Italy as well, if you want to get really scared.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]