6 ms·

I'll probably release a new version later this year. Most of the changes will be in news.arc, which is now pretty solid. Maybe I'll actually make an effort to

by pg 16y ago

I'll probably release a new version later this year. Most of the changes will be in news.arc, which is now pretty solid. Maybe I'll actually make an effort to make it installable without having to understand the source.

ygd 16y ago
I've always been meaning to check it out, but the barrier of entry has been too high (likely due to my laziness). IMO: an installer would be a good idea, availability on aptitude would be the best.
- evanrmurphy 16y ago
  5 shell commands to install and run Arc using aptitude: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1833416 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1833416
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
metamemetics 16y ago
Do you have any thoughts on a built in help operator mapping other operators to docstrings?
- evanrmurphy 16y ago
  There is one in Anarki: http://github.com/nex3/arc/tree/master/help/ http://github.com/nex3/arc/tree/master/help/ Usage examples: arc> help.acons [fn] (acons x) Determines if `x' is a `cons' cell or list. Unlike 'alist, this function will return nil if given an empty list See also [[atom]] [[alist]] [[dotted]] [[isa]] [[cons]] [[list]] nil arc> help.alist [fn] (alist x) Return true if argument is a possibly empty list Unlike 'acons, this function returns t when given an empty list See also [[atom]] [[acons]] [[dotted]] [[isa]] [[cons]] [[list]] nil arc> help.afn [mac] (afn parms . body) Creates a function which calls itself with the name `self'. See also [[fn]] [[rfn]] [[aif]] [[awhen]] [[aand]] nil
  - metamemetics 16y ago
    Btw I enjoyed your http://www.tryarc.org http://www.tryarc.org website, great job. It needs a big GET ARC button at the bottom though. Linking either to the canonical install page on arclanguage.org or the community anarki git repo. The decision is yours as to which one, no pressure ;) [ The site is an amazing piece of advertising, but it's not closing the sale :/ ]
evanrmurphy 16y ago
make it installable without having to understand the source I wouldn't say that understanding Arc's source is a prerequisite for installation. The problem is more just that the instructions are complex [1]. It would probably help if they were updated to let people know that with arc3.1, you don't have to worry about installing version 372 of MzScheme [2]. (Unless there's some reason why you'd prefer people installed arc3.0.) Navigating their website to download the specific old version of MzScheme is especially confusing since they rebranded as Racket. This reduces the install and run to (on Ubuntu 10.04): $ sudo aptitude install mzscheme $ wget http://ycombinator.com/arc/arc3.1.tar $ tar -xvf arc3.1.tar $ cd arc3.1 $ mzscheme -f as.scm --- [1] http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install [2] http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254
SiVal 16y ago
Graham cares about having a better programming language, but he doesn't really care enough to do what it takes to make it happen. (He has no obligation to do so, of course.) Practical programming languages these days aren't just ways of expressing "algorithms," but toolkits for marshalling the vast information processing resources around the world (people, libraries, net protocols, platforms from microcontroller to supercluster, communications systems, etc.) The number of issues is enormous and growing. Useful programming languages have to have a whole army of specialists who provide feedback and code dealing with security, internationalization, performance, accessibility, net protocols, commercial-grade GUI wrapper/frameworks, installers, compilers/runtimes for countless platforms, scientific computing, embedded/realtime computing, frameworks of all sorts, dev tools.... Many of these things will be done poorly, if at all, if not accounted for in the design of the foundations of the language. That's the reason for the serious warts on all popular languages and the desire of many for something better designed. Yet Graham's approach is, as always, to work privately, get feedback from the same half-dozen friends, then make announcements on a "when we have something to announce, I'll announce it, so don't bother asking" schedule. If none of his friends knows enough about international coding issues, for example, to even realize how little they know about text (something more important to Lisp than to most languages), then he'll make a silly architectural decision regarding Unicode, which he'll announce to, not discuss with, the rest of the world. Hey, if my friends don't seem concerned by it, it can't be very important, right? This is too bad. Few languages have the potential Lisp has for creating flexible, evolvable code that can rapidly adapt to the changing world. Yes, I do think that the language matters, but it's the whole platform, not just the syntax. But I don't think you can create a successful, practical, general purpose language these days without an army of specialist volunteers behind you. Graham's message to specialist volunteers is "go away, you're not the people whose opinions I care about," so I think the language WILL last 100 years--in approximately its current form.
- rms 16y ago
  http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html
  - nadam 16y ago

by pg 16y ago

ygd 16y ago

I've always been meaning to check it out, but the barrier of entry has been too high (likely due to my laziness). IMO: an installer would be a good idea, availability on aptitude would be the best.

evanrmurphy 16y ago
5 shell commands to install and run Arc using aptitude: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1833416 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1833416
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

metamemetics 16y ago

Do you have any thoughts on a built in help operator mapping other operators to docstrings?

evanrmurphy 16y ago
There is one in Anarki: http://github.com/nex3/arc/tree/master/help/ http://github.com/nex3/arc/tree/master/help/ Usage examples: arc> help.acons [fn] (acons x) Determines if `x' is a `cons' cell or list. Unlike 'alist, this function will return nil if given an empty list See also [[atom]] [[alist]] [[dotted]] [[isa]] [[cons]] [[list]] nil arc> help.alist [fn] (alist x) Return true if argument is a possibly empty list Unlike 'acons, this function returns t when given an empty list See also [[atom]] [[acons]] [[dotted]] [[isa]] [[cons]] [[list]] nil arc> help.afn [mac] (afn parms . body) Creates a function which calls itself with the name `self'. See also [[fn]] [[rfn]] [[aif]] [[awhen]] [[aand]] nil
- metamemetics 16y ago
  Btw I enjoyed your http://www.tryarc.org http://www.tryarc.org website, great job. It needs a big GET ARC button at the bottom though. Linking either to the canonical install page on arclanguage.org or the community anarki git repo. The decision is yours as to which one, no pressure ;) [ The site is an amazing piece of advertising, but it's not closing the sale :/ ]

evanrmurphy 16y ago

make it installable without having to understand the source I wouldn't say that understanding Arc's source is a prerequisite for installation. The problem is more just that the instructions are complex [1]. It would probably help if they were updated to let people know that with arc3.1, you don't have to worry about installing version 372 of MzScheme [2]. (Unless there's some reason why you'd prefer people installed arc3.0.) Navigating their website to download the specific old version of MzScheme is especially confusing since they rebranded as Racket. This reduces the install and run to (on Ubuntu 10.04): $ sudo aptitude install mzscheme $ wget http://ycombinator.com/arc/arc3.1.tar $ tar -xvf arc3.1.tar $ cd arc3.1 $ mzscheme -f as.scm --- [1] http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install [2] http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=10254

SiVal 16y ago

Graham cares about having a better programming language, but he doesn't really care enough to do what it takes to make it happen. (He has no obligation to do so, of course.) Practical programming languages these days aren't just ways of expressing "algorithms," but toolkits for marshalling the vast information processing resources around the world (people, libraries, net protocols, platforms from microcontroller to supercluster, communications systems, etc.) The number of issues is enormous and growing. Useful programming languages have to have a whole army of specialists who provide feedback and code dealing with security, internationalization, performance, accessibility, net protocols, commercial-grade GUI wrapper/frameworks, installers, compilers/runtimes for countless platforms, scientific computing, embedded/realtime computing, frameworks of all sorts, dev tools.... Many of these things will be done poorly, if at all, if not accounted for in the design of the foundations of the language. That's the reason for the serious warts on all popular languages and the desire of many for something better designed. Yet Graham's approach is, as always, to work privately, get feedback from the same half-dozen friends, then make announcements on a "when we have something to announce, I'll announce it, so don't bother asking" schedule. If none of his friends knows enough about international coding issues, for example, to even realize how little they know about text (something more important to Lisp than to most languages), then he'll make a silly architectural decision regarding Unicode, which he'll announce to, not discuss with, the rest of the world. Hey, if my friends don't seem concerned by it, it can't be very important, right? This is too bad. Few languages have the potential Lisp has for creating flexible, evolvable code that can rapidly adapt to the changing world. Yes, I do think that the language matters, but it's the whole platform, not just the syntax. But I don't think you can create a successful, practical, general purpose language these days without an army of specialist volunteers behind you. Graham's message to specialist volunteers is "go away, you're not the people whose opinions I care about," so I think the language WILL last 100 years--in approximately its current form.

rms 16y ago
http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html
- nadam 16y ago