7 ms·

And yet if you even dare to open up the argument that government should try to encourage the types of families and behavior that show the best results for this

And yet if you even dare to open up the argument that government should try to encourage the types of families and behavior that show the best results for this type of childhood, you'll immediately be drowned out in ad hominem attacks. Even Obama took a lot of heat for saying dad's should help raise their kids. Never mind more seriously statically relevant approaches like waiting until after high school and marriage to have kids.

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sidlls 8y ago
Most of the arguments you refer to are actually thinly veiled racism ("black dads don't care about their kids") and that is the source of antagonism against them. There is more than a little classism behind Obama's remarks, though: he wasn't exactly raised impoverished or by family who were constantly running afoul of a racist, classist "justice" system.
- balaksakrionon 8y ago
  That seems like the most uncharitable interpretation possible of the above person's comment.
  - sidlls 8y ago
    There's a reason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics was coined.
    - merpnderp 8y ago
      And if you're the only one hearing the dog whistle and everyone else just wants kids to have a better start?
- deleted 8y ago
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- deleted 8y ago
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- JPKab 8y ago
  Nobody is saying black dads don't care about their kids. The point is that it's a fair assumption that having over 70 percent of black children grow up without fathers robs them of the advantages of the author immediately. Some of the fathers are incarcerated. Most are not, and likely care deeply about their kids, but can't get along with the mother or can't deal with the stress of parenting.... We don't know, and can't know, because political correctness doesnt allow scientists to ask the obvious question: Why do poor black families have a lower percentage of present fathers than equally poor Latino, white, and Asian families? The data tells us this, and knowing the answer could help empower more black children to achieve their dreams.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  Isn't it also racist to hear someone say "fathers need to be parents too" and jump to the conclusion that the speaker is singling out about black men? There are plenty of fathers of all racists who are skipping out on being parents.
  - delinka 8y ago
    "...fathers of all races ..."
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    > Isn't it also racist to hear someone say "fathers need to be parents too" and jump to the conclusion that the speaker is singling out about black men? If that were the issue, it's not racist. The response isn't based on the speaker's race but on the content. But it arguably could be 'jumping to a conclusion'. But I don't think it's that either. The comment said that such statements are often thinly-veiled racism, which is true. Racism is infrequently expressed literally; there is a lot of 'dog whistle' communication and policies. For example, there's a semi-famous interview with a Republican strategist who said that, during the Reagan years, they realized they could no longer make outright racist statements, so they adopted school busing as an issue and expected that everyone would get the message - they couldn't outright say, 'you don't want your kids going to school with black kids, and we're the party that will stop that kind of thing', but they could talk about busing. Today, when Republican state governments take away voting locations in minority areas, and create ID and registration requirements that disproportionately affect minorities, it's pretty thinly veiled. In fact, those are some of the same tactics were used before the Voting Rights Act (the tactics returned immediately after Republicans on the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated parts of the Act). Some Republicans openly say that it's to prevent Democrats from voting.
hedvig 8y ago
So which specific policies are you advocating?

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[deleted]

sidlls 8y ago

Most of the arguments you refer to are actually thinly veiled racism ("black dads don't care about their kids") and that is the source of antagonism against them. There is more than a little classism behind Obama's remarks, though: he wasn't exactly raised impoverished or by family who were constantly running afoul of a racist, classist "justice" system.

balaksakrionon 8y ago
That seems like the most uncharitable interpretation possible of the above person's comment.
- sidlls 8y ago
  There's a reason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics was coined.
  - merpnderp 8y ago
    And if you're the only one hearing the dog whistle and everyone else just wants kids to have a better start?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
JPKab 8y ago
Nobody is saying black dads don't care about their kids. The point is that it's a fair assumption that having over 70 percent of black children grow up without fathers robs them of the advantages of the author immediately. Some of the fathers are incarcerated. Most are not, and likely care deeply about their kids, but can't get along with the mother or can't deal with the stress of parenting.... We don't know, and can't know, because political correctness doesnt allow scientists to ask the obvious question: Why do poor black families have a lower percentage of present fathers than equally poor Latino, white, and Asian families? The data tells us this, and knowing the answer could help empower more black children to achieve their dreams.
Johnny555 8y ago
Isn't it also racist to hear someone say "fathers need to be parents too" and jump to the conclusion that the speaker is singling out about black men? There are plenty of fathers of all racists who are skipping out on being parents.
- delinka 8y ago
  "...fathers of all races ..."
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > Isn't it also racist to hear someone say "fathers need to be parents too" and jump to the conclusion that the speaker is singling out about black men? If that were the issue, it's not racist. The response isn't based on the speaker's race but on the content. But it arguably could be 'jumping to a conclusion'. But I don't think it's that either. The comment said that such statements are often thinly-veiled racism, which is true. Racism is infrequently expressed literally; there is a lot of 'dog whistle' communication and policies. For example, there's a semi-famous interview with a Republican strategist who said that, during the Reagan years, they realized they could no longer make outright racist statements, so they adopted school busing as an issue and expected that everyone would get the message - they couldn't outright say, 'you don't want your kids going to school with black kids, and we're the party that will stop that kind of thing', but they could talk about busing. Today, when Republican state governments take away voting locations in minority areas, and create ID and registration requirements that disproportionately affect minorities, it's pretty thinly veiled. In fact, those are some of the same tactics were used before the Voting Rights Act (the tactics returned immediately after Republicans on the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated parts of the Act). Some Republicans openly say that it's to prevent Democrats from voting.

hedvig 8y ago

So which specific policies are you advocating?