4 ms·

I haven't read much in detail on this, but it seems to me like an unintentional stress test for asylum seeker accommodations. Doesn't really matter how you cons

I haven't read much in detail on this, but it seems to me like an unintentional stress test for asylum seeker accommodations. Doesn't really matter how you consider Assange as a person. If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, not just ignored as an exceptional case because he's showed jerk qualities, made serious journalistic gaffs, and the most powerful governments all hate him. By the way, Ecuador’s ex-president Rafael Correa called the treatment of Julian Assange as "basically torture"

notafraudster 8y ago
It's not clear who the "like anyone else" comparison would be -- it is easy to imagine that the specifics of seeking asylum at a foreign embassy are very different than seeking asylum in the country itself. I would assume the average government gives asylum seekers a limited amount of transition aid (in finding housing, language instruction, buying initial food), and some of this may be provided by NGOs. Any costs incurred by the government may or may not go through general spending, but I would expect leverages domestic service provision (i.e. subsidized housing exists for non-asylum seekers and is leveraged to provide some for asylum seekers). Then after the first few years of asylum I would expect the government to have basically no further obligations to the person in question. On the other hand, Assange's living costs are wholly paid by the government of Ecuador and presumably come from the operational budget of the embassy. Also, the embassy itself is going to be physically limited in size. I don't live in London but I did live in an Embassy Row in another OECD country for a few years and many countries had embassies not much bigger than a 3 or 4 bedroom house. I definitely agree Ecuador, conditional on granting him asylum at all, should extend to Assange the same benefits they do to other long-term asylum grantees who live in their embassies worldwide. But I suspect the set of other people in that situation is cardinality 0. That's not Assange's fault, or Ecuador's or really anyone's. It'd surely be better for everyone involved if they could fly him to territorial Ecuador. But it is what it is.
ilikehurdles 8y ago
What U.S. charges is he seeking asylum from? Honest question.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  He is seeking asylum from British charges, in part notionally based on fear that he will be extradited to the US on currently non-public US charges should he fall back into British custody.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Haha you're just so honest. As if USA doesn't regularly transport Americans and non-Americans alike to dungeons in benighted locales around the world for extrajudicial torture and disposal... "charges", that's classic. Back here on earth, USA Senators from both parties regularly accuse Assange of all manner of perfidy. They've all got incriminating shit on file at the TLAs, and regular whinging about Assange or Snowden or whomever is table stakes. When Bloody 'Gina gets her hooks into this guy, who besides Rand Paul will complain?
  - ilikehurdles 8y ago
    What is a good way that I could ask this question without getting a toxic response from you?
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  A bill was passed labeling Wikileaks a "non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors and should be treated as such." Though I don't think there is a public warrant for his arrest, they likely do have some sealed charges.
  - ilikehurdles 8y ago
    Do you have any speculation for what those charges might look like if they're unsealed?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      The usual speculation is Espionage Act charges related particularly to the Manning documents, but charges similar to those files against the various Russian parties with regard to the more recent leaks wouldn't be entirely implausible, either.
bogomipz 8y ago
>"Doesn't really matter how you consider Assange as a person. If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, not just ignored as an exceptional case because he's showed jerk qualities,..." Wait so he should be "accommodated like anyone else" but doesn't have to behave "like anyone else" would? I think the great majority of people who would qualify as "anyone else" would go to great lengths to show their appreciation and gratitude towards their host of the last six years. Instead he's suing them? What I find so surprising is that for someone who is so geo-politically engaged just how poor his grasp of everyday interpersonal politics is. This person is a guest.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, Sure, but there's not a class of cases where there is a discernable generic rule without sui generis considerations in virtually every case. Extended asylum in a diplomatic facility is an extraordinary situation, not a routine occurence with established standard practice.

notafraudster 8y ago

It's not clear who the "like anyone else" comparison would be -- it is easy to imagine that the specifics of seeking asylum at a foreign embassy are very different than seeking asylum in the country itself. I would assume the average government gives asylum seekers a limited amount of transition aid (in finding housing, language instruction, buying initial food), and some of this may be provided by NGOs. Any costs incurred by the government may or may not go through general spending, but I would expect leverages domestic service provision (i.e. subsidized housing exists for non-asylum seekers and is leveraged to provide some for asylum seekers). Then after the first few years of asylum I would expect the government to have basically no further obligations to the person in question. On the other hand, Assange's living costs are wholly paid by the government of Ecuador and presumably come from the operational budget of the embassy. Also, the embassy itself is going to be physically limited in size. I don't live in London but I did live in an Embassy Row in another OECD country for a few years and many countries had embassies not much bigger than a 3 or 4 bedroom house. I definitely agree Ecuador, conditional on granting him asylum at all, should extend to Assange the same benefits they do to other long-term asylum grantees who live in their embassies worldwide. But I suspect the set of other people in that situation is cardinality 0. That's not Assange's fault, or Ecuador's or really anyone's. It'd surely be better for everyone involved if they could fly him to territorial Ecuador. But it is what it is.

ilikehurdles 8y ago

What U.S. charges is he seeking asylum from? Honest question.

dragonwriter 8y ago
He is seeking asylum from British charges, in part notionally based on fear that he will be extradited to the US on currently non-public US charges should he fall back into British custody.
jessaustin 8y ago
Haha you're just so honest. As if USA doesn't regularly transport Americans and non-Americans alike to dungeons in benighted locales around the world for extrajudicial torture and disposal... "charges", that's classic. Back here on earth, USA Senators from both parties regularly accuse Assange of all manner of perfidy. They've all got incriminating shit on file at the TLAs, and regular whinging about Assange or Snowden or whomever is table stakes. When Bloody 'Gina gets her hooks into this guy, who besides Rand Paul will complain?
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  What is a good way that I could ask this question without getting a toxic response from you?
boomboomsubban 8y ago
A bill was passed labeling Wikileaks a "non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors and should be treated as such." Though I don't think there is a public warrant for his arrest, they likely do have some sealed charges.
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  Do you have any speculation for what those charges might look like if they're unsealed?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    The usual speculation is Espionage Act charges related particularly to the Manning documents, but charges similar to those files against the various Russian parties with regard to the more recent leaks wouldn't be entirely implausible, either.

bogomipz 8y ago

>"Doesn't really matter how you consider Assange as a person. If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, not just ignored as an exceptional case because he's showed jerk qualities,..." Wait so he should be "accommodated like anyone else" but doesn't have to behave "like anyone else" would? I think the great majority of people who would qualify as "anyone else" would go to great lengths to show their appreciation and gratitude towards their host of the last six years. Instead he's suing them? What I find so surprising is that for someone who is so geo-politically engaged just how poor his grasp of everyday interpersonal politics is. This person is a guest.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> If you agree his claims for asylum are valid, he should be accommodated like anyone else, Sure, but there's not a class of cases where there is a discernable generic rule without sui generis considerations in virtually every case. Extended asylum in a diplomatic facility is an extraordinary situation, not a routine occurence with established standard practice.