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Does Einstein really hold an important relevance to 'everyman USA'? To nearly every citizen - and, I would argue, even with those a basic (HS) level of physics

Does Einstein really hold an important relevance to 'everyman USA'? To nearly every citizen - and, I would argue, even with those a basic (HS) level of physics - he's not so different than Heisenberg, Bohr, Bethe, Shrodinger, etc. Sure, they made great advances for the world of physics, but how relevant is that to an individual who does not interact with that theory at all? More specifically, relevant enough to cause worry? Now, I note that you could argue the Manhattan product is a reason for Einstein's relevance, but was he really significantly more relevant in that than any other of the scientists? People know politicians because they affect taxes, healthcare, laws, etc. They know sports stars because it's a subject they enjoy following - featuring impressive feats of human ability. And they probably know a few individuals closer to their field of work. Is Einstein really an example of something that 'everyman' should know about, or could your argument partially be a confirmation of the article's argument?

edanm 16y ago
It's not about whether Einstein should be known or not. The point is that he is an icon, one that the vast majority of people do know about. Not knowing about Einstein means you're really uninformed.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  No, Really Uninformed is a whole nother level of ignorance. When pictures of Jupiter from Pioneer 10 were on the front page <\dated myself>, a graduate student in my Engineering school asked me "Jupiter is a planet, right"? Astonished, I answered politely "Yes, its the 5th planet". Then, and this is the good part, she asked "So, is Earth a planet?"
  - daten 16y ago
    Knowing that Jupiter is the 5th planet from the sun is practical knowledge for how many people? edit: (HN wont let me reply again) I understood your point. I think in the context of the article the only irony is you think the technical fact that astronomers label Earth as a "planet" is necessary knowledge for every field of engineering or anyone with an advanced education. Yes, I learned about the solar system in elementary school too but I wouldn't judge someone who didn't. It's not much more useful than trivia to most people. Discussion around another recent article on HN comparing C programming to a carpenter using a hammer demonstrated that even people with computer science degrees and years of experience writing software might no nothing about HTML or SQL.
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      Way to totally miss my point. I guess I wasn't being obvious enough. This highly educated Engineering graduate student didn't know that they lived on a planet. Its ironic.
      - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
        Don't take this the wrong way, but ... > This highly educated Engineering graduate student > didn't know that they lived on a planet. Its ironic. And assuming you're reasonably well educated, and reasonably well informed, and reasonably intelligent, you didn't know, or care, that "its" as you've used it should've had an apostrophe. When you write "Its ironic" the "Its" is an abbreviation of "It is". There are things that just don't matter in people's lives. For many, increasingly, traditionally "correct" usage of the apostrophe is one of them. For others, it is irrelevant that the word "planet" has a technical definition, that Jupiter and the Earth are examples, and Pluto no longer is. Most people don't know that a sizeable proportion of the mass in wood comes from the air, or that the Earth goes round the Sun (in the simplest model of the Solar System) or that Google is not a web browser. These are things removed from people's concerns, irrelevant to them. Before a few years ago I didn't know that Bach pre-dated Beethoven, even though I listened to their music all the time. Why should I care? No doubt I'd be laughed at by the self-declared "cultural" people, and then I'll ask them to quote the second law of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures
        JoeAltmaier 16y ago
        Ok, I am a holdout on the "its vs it's" issue. One is not superior to the other; they are a compromise due to 'battling syntax rules', posessive vs contraction. Following convention would be useful for the reader, yes, but I bet you weren't confused by my text. And not knowing you live on a planet is not a "technical definition" problem - its a fundamental ignorance. I didn't go into it, but I'm thinking another sentence from me may have sorted out the flat-vs-round issue in their mind as well.
  - wazoox 16y ago
    There is something called "general culture". Not knowing that Einstein is a physicist, that Jupiter and the Earth are planets, that Christopher Columbus landed the Americas in 1492, is lacking general culture, i. e. being dumb. When you're so specialized you can't be bothered to know the bare "common sense" stuff, you can't even be a responsible citizen.
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      ...or even a good Engineer. This lady may have helped design that MRI machine your spouse trusted their life to.
Figs 16y ago
Einstein is basically consider to be the stereotypical genius in pop-culture; it's not so much the details of his work that's important to the weirdness here, but that he is widely known for having been brilliant. (Consider common phrases like, "I'm no Einstein, but ...") The fact that he is unfamiliar with Einstein is like being unfamiliar with King Tut or Mozart or George Washington; at least in the US, you'd expect most people to recognize the names, even if they might not remember all the precise details about them.

edanm 16y ago

It's not about whether Einstein should be known or not. The point is that he is an icon, one that the vast majority of people do know about. Not knowing about Einstein means you're really uninformed.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
No, Really Uninformed is a whole nother level of ignorance. When pictures of Jupiter from Pioneer 10 were on the front page <\dated myself>, a graduate student in my Engineering school asked me "Jupiter is a planet, right"? Astonished, I answered politely "Yes, its the 5th planet". Then, and this is the good part, she asked "So, is Earth a planet?"
- daten 16y ago
  Knowing that Jupiter is the 5th planet from the sun is practical knowledge for how many people? edit: (HN wont let me reply again) I understood your point. I think in the context of the article the only irony is you think the technical fact that astronomers label Earth as a "planet" is necessary knowledge for every field of engineering or anyone with an advanced education. Yes, I learned about the solar system in elementary school too but I wouldn't judge someone who didn't. It's not much more useful than trivia to most people. Discussion around another recent article on HN comparing C programming to a carpenter using a hammer demonstrated that even people with computer science degrees and years of experience writing software might no nothing about HTML or SQL.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Way to totally miss my point. I guess I wasn't being obvious enough. This highly educated Engineering graduate student didn't know that they lived on a planet. Its ironic.
    - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
      Don't take this the wrong way, but ... > This highly educated Engineering graduate student > didn't know that they lived on a planet. Its ironic. And assuming you're reasonably well educated, and reasonably well informed, and reasonably intelligent, you didn't know, or care, that "its" as you've used it should've had an apostrophe. When you write "Its ironic" the "Its" is an abbreviation of "It is". There are things that just don't matter in people's lives. For many, increasingly, traditionally "correct" usage of the apostrophe is one of them. For others, it is irrelevant that the word "planet" has a technical definition, that Jupiter and the Earth are examples, and Pluto no longer is. Most people don't know that a sizeable proportion of the mass in wood comes from the air, or that the Earth goes round the Sun (in the simplest model of the Solar System) or that Google is not a web browser. These are things removed from people's concerns, irrelevant to them. Before a few years ago I didn't know that Bach pre-dated Beethoven, even though I listened to their music all the time. Why should I care? No doubt I'd be laughed at by the self-declared "cultural" people, and then I'll ask them to quote the second law of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures
      - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
        Ok, I am a holdout on the "its vs it's" issue. One is not superior to the other; they are a compromise due to 'battling syntax rules', posessive vs contraction. Following convention would be useful for the reader, yes, but I bet you weren't confused by my text. And not knowing you live on a planet is not a "technical definition" problem - its a fundamental ignorance. I didn't go into it, but I'm thinking another sentence from me may have sorted out the flat-vs-round issue in their mind as well.
- wazoox 16y ago
  There is something called "general culture". Not knowing that Einstein is a physicist, that Jupiter and the Earth are planets, that Christopher Columbus landed the Americas in 1492, is lacking general culture, i. e. being dumb. When you're so specialized you can't be bothered to know the bare "common sense" stuff, you can't even be a responsible citizen.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    ...or even a good Engineer. This lady may have helped design that MRI machine your spouse trusted their life to.

Figs 16y ago

Einstein is basically consider to be the stereotypical genius in pop-culture; it's not so much the details of his work that's important to the weirdness here, but that he is widely known for having been brilliant. (Consider common phrases like, "I'm no Einstein, but ...") The fact that he is unfamiliar with Einstein is like being unfamiliar with King Tut or Mozart or George Washington; at least in the US, you'd expect most people to recognize the names, even if they might not remember all the precise details about them.