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I didn't say they were committing an illegal act, although most are. I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. The vast majority

by tropo 8y ago

I didn't say they were committing an illegal act, although most are. I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. The vast majority are not undocumented. They have fraudulent documentation. Identity theft is not a victimless crime. Overstaying a visa isn't a crime, but getting a visa with the intent to overstay it is a crime. Jumping the border is obviously a crime. Those two methods of entry cover the vast majority. There aren't a lot of people who intended to leave and then just... forgot the visa expiration date or something.

code_duck 8y ago
Coming to the US to pick crops is a victimless ‘crime’. If anyone, the bigger criminals are the US citizens who own the companies, large and small, who hire undocumented workers and know full well they are doing it.
- masonic 8y ago
  Less than one half of one percent are "picking crops". Most work in hospitality and food prep, indoors.
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Are you saying there is some qualitative difference there, or just adding work examples? Do you use the scare quotes to mean people who come to the US to work cleaning hotels are victimizing US citizens by doing so? Or that you disagree, because I’m wrong and people who prep sandwiches and clean apartments are more to blame for their unlawful employment than their employers? Why would it matter that they're indoors? I’m really confused by what you choose to emphasize. I find it unlikely that agricultural employees make up .5% of Central American immigrants in the US at any given time. That figure sounds low.
monocasa 8y ago
> I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. Except it isn't. https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2018/may/09/steve-mccraw/illegal-alien-legal-term-federal-law/ https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2018/may/09/stev... It appears in section headers that don't have legal weight behind them, and in reference to aliens who have additionally been convicted of at least on felony. Just saying something doesn't make it true.
- tropo 8y ago
  Not that politifact is trustworthy, but OK, which alternative do you like? That article lists "unauthorized aliens", "inadmissible aliens" and "deportable aliens". Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do. These people generally have illegal documentation, possibly even matching your documentation.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Don't be so combative. You're the one spreading the falsehood that "The only fully correct term, as used in our laws and in numerous Supreme Court rulings, is "illegal alien"" despite having no real evidence of that. > Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do. No, because someone without their wallet will still be documented in the databases. > These people generally have illegal documentation, possibly even matching your documentation. Do I need to track down how that's false too? You really seem to enjoy making statements with nothing to back them up.
  - code_duck 8y ago
    “Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do.” So, these terms have legal definitions. You may wish to inform yourself a lot better before having such debates.

by tropo 8y ago

code_duck 8y ago

Coming to the US to pick crops is a victimless ‘crime’. If anyone, the bigger criminals are the US citizens who own the companies, large and small, who hire undocumented workers and know full well they are doing it.

masonic 8y ago
Less than one half of one percent are "picking crops". Most work in hospitality and food prep, indoors.
- code_duck 8y ago
  Are you saying there is some qualitative difference there, or just adding work examples? Do you use the scare quotes to mean people who come to the US to work cleaning hotels are victimizing US citizens by doing so? Or that you disagree, because I’m wrong and people who prep sandwiches and clean apartments are more to blame for their unlawful employment than their employers? Why would it matter that they're indoors? I’m really confused by what you choose to emphasize. I find it unlikely that agricultural employees make up .5% of Central American immigrants in the US at any given time. That figure sounds low.

monocasa 8y ago

> I just said that "illegal alien" is the only correct term under our law. Except it isn't. https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2018/may/09/steve-mccraw/illegal-alien-legal-term-federal-law/ https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2018/may/09/stev... It appears in section headers that don't have legal weight behind them, and in reference to aliens who have additionally been convicted of at least on felony. Just saying something doesn't make it true.

tropo 8y ago
Not that politifact is trustworthy, but OK, which alternative do you like? That article lists "unauthorized aliens", "inadmissible aliens" and "deportable aliens". Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do. These people generally have illegal documentation, possibly even matching your documentation.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Don't be so combative. You're the one spreading the falsehood that "The only fully correct term, as used in our laws and in numerous Supreme Court rulings, is "illegal alien"" despite having no real evidence of that. > Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do. No, because someone without their wallet will still be documented in the databases. > These people generally have illegal documentation, possibly even matching your documentation. Do I need to track down how that's false too? You really seem to enjoy making statements with nothing to back them up.
- code_duck 8y ago
  “Undocumented is when somebody loses their wallet, so that won't do.” So, these terms have legal definitions. You may wish to inform yourself a lot better before having such debates.