4 ms·

See my above comment, anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?). I'm commenting under my real name, i

See my above comment, anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?). I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.

pvg 8y ago
Your good faith argument is that having built a site for white supremacists and Nazis and regularly using the overt, racist, anti-semitic language of white supremacists and Nazis (which you, for some inexplicable reason, choose to describe as 'criticism of Jews') the owners of Gab might, in fact, be secret adherents to the ideology of the Nation of Islam. There's a bit in Winnie-the-Pooh in which Pooh goes home to get a jar of honey to use as bait in a Heffalump trap. "It had HUNNY written on it, but, just to make sure, he took off the paper cover and looked at it, and it looked just like honey. “But you never can tell,” said Pooh. “I remember my uncle saying once that he had seen cheese just this colour.” So he put his tongue in, and took a large lick. “Yes,” he said, “it is. no doubt about that. And honey, I should say, right down to the bottom of the jar. Unless, of course,” he said, “somebody put cheese in at the bottom just for a joke. Perhaps I had better go a little further... just in case... in case Heffalumps don't like cheese... same as me... Ah!” And he gave a deep sigh. “I was right. It is honey, right the way down.”" Five year olds can easily tell this is supposed to be amusing and not a description of Pooh's good-faith effort to establish the precise contents of the jar.
- corey_moncure 8y ago
  Big straw-man there. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs. It's disrespectful to the person generally, and very tenuous since there's definitely context I lack. I'm not familiar with Gab, so I'm just going on the information I see presented. I stated what I felt I could prove up if called out: the comments criticized Jews and Israel. To that extent, I concede they're anti-Semitic. (There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest). I haven't seen the full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism you're saying there is, which maybe there is, but I haven't seen it so I shy away from claiming it. These conversations can be dangerous because of how very easy it is to over-state yourself, particularly when you go throwing labels around. I haven't presented any argument here. I'm asking the man to fill in what I see as a gap in his argument, that is, strengthening his argument. I'm being called to the floor over it.
  - pcwalton 8y ago
    > There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest I have to admit, up until now I never thought I'd see anyone seriously try the "Arabs are Semites too!" argument, which is in all other circumstances a parody of message board concern trolling.
    - corey_moncure 8y ago
      It's an aside; I put it in parentheses. It's not an argument. It's a meta-comment on how difficult it can be to use words with precision. I'm trying my best to handle a difficult conversation with civility and grace. Are you giving me the benefit of the doubt?
      - tptacek 8y ago
        Not really, not anymore.
        corey_moncure 8y ago
        You made me sad. Hopefully we can see eye to eye some day.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - pvg 8y ago
    Big straw-man there. It's actually a Heffalump. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs [...] haven't seen the full on full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism You know who else was not super-overt about the 'final solution' part of their Nazism? The Nazis.

See my above comment, anti-Semitism and white supremacy aren't the same thing (black nationalists can't be anti-Semites?). I'm commenting under my real name, in good faith.

pvg 8y ago

Your good faith argument is that having built a site for white supremacists and Nazis and regularly using the overt, racist, anti-semitic language of white supremacists and Nazis (which you, for some inexplicable reason, choose to describe as 'criticism of Jews') the owners of Gab might, in fact, be secret adherents to the ideology of the Nation of Islam. There's a bit in Winnie-the-Pooh in which Pooh goes home to get a jar of honey to use as bait in a Heffalump trap. "It had HUNNY written on it, but, just to make sure, he took off the paper cover and looked at it, and it looked just like honey. “But you never can tell,” said Pooh. “I remember my uncle saying once that he had seen cheese just this colour.” So he put his tongue in, and took a large lick. “Yes,” he said, “it is. no doubt about that. And honey, I should say, right down to the bottom of the jar. Unless, of course,” he said, “somebody put cheese in at the bottom just for a joke. Perhaps I had better go a little further... just in case... in case Heffalumps don't like cheese... same as me... Ah!” And he gave a deep sigh. “I was right. It is honey, right the way down.”" Five year olds can easily tell this is supposed to be amusing and not a description of Pooh's good-faith effort to establish the precise contents of the jar.

corey_moncure 8y ago
Big straw-man there. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs. It's disrespectful to the person generally, and very tenuous since there's definitely context I lack. I'm not familiar with Gab, so I'm just going on the information I see presented. I stated what I felt I could prove up if called out: the comments criticized Jews and Israel. To that extent, I concede they're anti-Semitic. (There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest). I haven't seen the full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism you're saying there is, which maybe there is, but I haven't seen it so I shy away from claiming it. These conversations can be dangerous because of how very easy it is to over-state yourself, particularly when you go throwing labels around. I haven't presented any argument here. I'm asking the man to fill in what I see as a gap in his argument, that is, strengthening his argument. I'm being called to the floor over it.
- pcwalton 8y ago
  > There again, Semite is a category that includes many populations of which Jews are not even the largest I have to admit, up until now I never thought I'd see anyone seriously try the "Arabs are Semites too!" argument, which is in all other circumstances a parody of message board concern trolling.
  - corey_moncure 8y ago
    It's an aside; I put it in parentheses. It's not an argument. It's a meta-comment on how difficult it can be to use words with precision. I'm trying my best to handle a difficult conversation with civility and grace. Are you giving me the benefit of the doubt?
    - tptacek 8y ago
      Not really, not anymore.
      - corey_moncure 8y ago
        You made me sad. Hopefully we can see eye to eye some day.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- pvg 8y ago
  Big straw-man there. It's actually a Heffalump. I've chosen to avoid putting labels on people based on twitter-length blurbs [...] haven't seen the full on full on overt, racist, 'final solution' type of Nazism You know who else was not super-overt about the 'final solution' part of their Nazism? The Nazis.