3 ms·

Why would you be surprised or expect them to be opposed? I'll be honest, I think you misread what "conservatism" is really about... and I say this as someone t

Why would you be surprised or expect them to be opposed? I'll be honest, I think you misread what "conservatism" is really about... and I say this as someone that thought he knew it and considered himself to be a "conservative" for a long time. Their pitch is smaller government, but you shouldn't construe that to mean a non-interventionist government. They see a very active role for government in 1) foreign affairs; 2) economic activity; 3) social policy... in other words, quite a lot of intervention. The only real difference between the conservatives and the progressives are the goals of those interventions (somewhat) and the how up-front they are about their positions. Once realized that the pitch and the actual goals were saying contradictory things... I can tell you that I'm no conservative.

duxup 8y ago
I'm not surprised.
amanaplanacanal 8y ago
It's really hard to have legitimate political debate when you can't even find out what people's real political positions are. My gut feeling is that the blue team is more honest about telling you what they actually believe and want, but I might just be naive.
- sbuttgereit 8y ago
  [edited: I didn't like pretty much my entire text; updated to be more clear about the same ideas] Team Red lies about what principles they hold; there are exceptions, like abortion, but on the whole they say they're for one thing when in fact they are largely about another. Team Blue is pretty up-front about their principles. For Team Blue rules much more by the ends justifying means. So they'll tell you what they're after generally, but will lie about/hide the details of what it takes to achieve the ends or the broader consequences of their goals that might not be readily apparent. Both of them want you to have an emotional response to their proposals or opposition than to try to have you respond rationally to facts. Lying or not, an emotional response is stronger, harder to dislodge, and avoids pesky details that complicate an otherwise perfectly painted, if not fully real, picture.

duxup 8y ago

I'm not surprised.

amanaplanacanal 8y ago

It's really hard to have legitimate political debate when you can't even find out what people's real political positions are. My gut feeling is that the blue team is more honest about telling you what they actually believe and want, but I might just be naive.

sbuttgereit 8y ago
[edited: I didn't like pretty much my entire text; updated to be more clear about the same ideas] Team Red lies about what principles they hold; there are exceptions, like abortion, but on the whole they say they're for one thing when in fact they are largely about another. Team Blue is pretty up-front about their principles. For Team Blue rules much more by the ends justifying means. So they'll tell you what they're after generally, but will lie about/hide the details of what it takes to achieve the ends or the broader consequences of their goals that might not be readily apparent. Both of them want you to have an emotional response to their proposals or opposition than to try to have you respond rationally to facts. Lying or not, an emotional response is stronger, harder to dislodge, and avoids pesky details that complicate an otherwise perfectly painted, if not fully real, picture.